15 position players…who goes?

[dzorange]

C- Adley / McCann

1st- OHearn / Mountcastle / Urias - I don't think O'Hearn goes. Interesting untapped potential and 1B is not a strength for the O's

2nd - Westburg / Frazier / Urias - I think Westburg gets called up. Frazier has become a weak spot. I don't think they get rid of Frazier, but he'll be more of a platoon or bench.

SS - Ortiz / Mateo / Urias I would prefer Ortiz, but I think it's more likely they platoon Mateo and Ortiz. I would like Mateo to move to a super utility role - late game defensive replacement and pinch runner.

3rd- Henderson / Urias

OF- Hicks / Hays / Mullins - I think they wait on Cowser, unless they move Hays or Santander. I don't see Hicks lasting all season, but don't see anything happening soon.

DH- Santander / O'Hearn / Mountcastle

So that leaves out Cowser and McKenna. If I had to guess another guy, I would say Ortiz gets sent down until O'Hearn and/or Hicks burn out. Of course injuries could greatly change this.

Edited June 21, 2023 by dzorange

[24fps]

O'Hearn's OPS+ for the O's this year is 178 while his career OPS+ prior to this year is 83.  Call me crazy, but I think he's in line for some serious regression so he goes.  Mountcastle's OPS+ this season is 89 while his career before this season is 113, so he stays while Kjerstad starts getting reps at 1B immediately.  I'm losing my patience with Mountcastle but I'm not willing to give up on him right away.

If Ortiz is as good as advertised in the field then losing Mateo is an easy call for me.  I would prefer to get a little value back for both players, but I wouldn't lose sleep both were simply lost from the organization.

I'm completely comfortable with a big investment in Ortiz, Westburg, and Cowser this year so let's get the show on the road.

[Aristotelian]

32 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

You want Hicks released with the way he has been playing? He's hitting .340 since joining the O's. I'm not expecting him to do that or anything close to that for the year. But who could replace him now, while he's playing this well, and put up the type of numbers that he has thus far?

He was second to last on the list so I wouldn't say it's a move I want to make, but he is on the list of vulnerable guys. I don't expect his performance to continue, he is old, doesn't have team control, and doesn't really have a role when everyone else is healthy. If he regresses I would get rid of him without much hesitation. Would I release him today to make room for Cowser? That is a tough one.

[spiritof66]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He was second to last on the list so I wouldn't say it's a move I want to make, but he is on the list of vulnerable guys. I don't expect his performance to continue, he is old, doesn't have team control, and doesn't really have a role when everyone else is healthy. If he regresses I would get rid of him without much hesitation. Would I release him today to make room for Cowser? That is a tough one.

Whether or not you would part with Hicks to make room for Cowser, I'm pretty sure the Orioles won't so long as Hicks remains productive. If he performs for another month at anywhere near his current level, he's probably here for the rest of the season, barring a complete collapse or an irresistable trade offer. (And though we don't know what trades he's turned down, it appears that Elias is pretty good at resisting trade offers.)

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He was second to last on the list so I wouldn't say it's a move I want to make, but he is on the list of vulnerable guys. I don't expect his performance to continue, he is old, doesn't have team control, and doesn't really have a role when everyone else is healthy. If he regresses I would get rid of him without much hesitation. Would I release him today to make room for Cowser? That is a tough one.

I guess to each their own. I don't understand the logic of even considering jettisoning him from the lineup when he is performing this well. 

I love the prospect that Cowser is and I believe in the player that he can become (I really love his talent). But I don't see a realistic scenario where he can come up to the bigs and outperform right now what Hicks has given us.

But I guess I have to accept that some posters/fans want prospect up and playing NO MATTER WHAT. I guess this falls in line with the same sentiments that want/wanted the Orioles to trade Hays and Santander? And Mullins last year? Soon I'm sure there will be calls in about 2-3 years to trade Adley and Gunnar for the next hot prospect?

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

Whether or not you would part with Hicks to make room for Cowser, I'm pretty sure the Orioles won't so long as Hicks remains productive. If he performs for another month at anywhere near his current level, he's probably here for the rest of the season, barring a complete collapse or an irresistable trade offer. (And though we don't know what trades he's turned down, it appears that Elias is pretty good at resisting trade offers.)

I tend to doubt he will maintain a 1.000 OPS when he has shown no sign of that over his career. If he keeps doing that he will be tough to get rid of for sure. I would love to keep him, I would also love to see Cowser sooner rather than later.

[HandsomeQuack]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I guess to each their own. I don't understand the logic of even considering jettisoning him from the lineup when he is performing this well. 

I love the prospect that Cowser is and I believe in the player that he can become (I really love his talent). But I don't see a realistic scenario where he can come up to the bigs and outperform right now what Hicks has given us.

But I guess I have to accept that some posters/fans want prospect up and playing NO MATTER WHAT. I guess this falls in line with the same sentiments that want/wanted the Orioles to trade Hays and Santander? And Mullins last year? Soon I'm sure there will be calls in about 2-3 years to trade Adley and Gunnar for the next hot prospect?

Fitting Cowser in the lineup somewhere was part of the prompt, and even then no one is calling to DFA Hicks.

That said, in a month or two when Hicks reverts to what he has been for the last five years, we will all be ready to move on from him. I want him to keep performing, obviously, but that is the most likely scenario.

[Orioles0615]

Lester and Mateo should be gone. Fraizer soon to follow them 

[Aristotelian]

28 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I guess to each their own. I don't understand the logic of even considering jettisoning him from the lineup when he is performing this well. 

I love the prospect that Cowser is and I believe in the player that he can become (I really love his talent). But I don't see a realistic scenario where he can come up to the bigs and outperform right now what Hicks has given us.

But I guess I have to accept that some posters/fans want prospect up and playing NO MATTER WHAT. I guess this falls in line with the same sentiments that want/wanted the Orioles to trade Hays and Santander? And Mullins last year? Soon I'm sure there will be calls in about 2-3 years to trade Adley and Gunnar for the next hot prospect?

As I said it would be a difficult choice. I think you are confusing my answer to the question with an actual proposal. I think the exercise illustrates that it will be a difficult choice to get rid of anyone performing well on a winning team to make room for prospects.  I am saying if we were to make room for prospects , this would be my order of preference. 

That being said, I also don't buy into small sample sizes. Based on his track record I think it is highly unlikely Hicks continues to perform at this level and given his age and contract I don't see him as untouchable.

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, psagawa said:

Cowser and Westburg are analogous to Don Baylor and Bobby Grich on the 1971 Rochester Red Wings

I get why you're saying this but I don't find it to be necessarily true.  

Davey Johnson was the 2nd baseman for the Orioles in 1971, he was head and shoulders above what Frazier is today.  Frank Robinson was the right fielder in 1971 and while he wasn't as effective as he was in 1966, he still put up an .894 OPS.

Grich and Baylor had monster seasons in the minors that year.  But I think what you're trying to say is that the 1971 Orioles had veterans that they weren't interested in moving for guys in the minors who were putting up ridiculous stats.  But no one on this roster carries the weight that Frank Robinson did in 1971, even as he was on the downside of his career they were going to wait until the offseason to trade him.  

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[oriolediehard]

As long as O'hearn and Hicks are productive, I do not want the O's to rid them from us.  What guarantee do we have that Cowser will produce at the MLB level. We need offense this year and for the playoffs. I wouldn't lose sleep if we trade McKenna, Mateo, Stowers and Bemboom.

[Safelykept]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Cowser and Westburg aren’t coming up.  Get over it.

13 players.

1B O’Hearn, Mountcastle

2B Frazier/Urias

SS Mateo/Ortiz

3B Henderson

C Rutschman/McCann

LF Hays

CF Mullins

RF Hicks

DH Santander

The 13th man could be Ortiz or McKenna but I think Mateo eventually starts losing time to Ortiz.   No way Cowser comes up while Hicks looks like the second coming.   

Agree how do you start Cowser, when between Hays Mullins Hicks and Santander you have one of the productive outfields in the game. Starting Cowser over Hicks? What's next you bench Hays For Cowser? 

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, Matt Bennett said:

Boring answer is 2 of Lester, McKenna, Ortiz are optioned for Mullins + Mountcastle while Cowser + Westburg stay in the minors. I just hope that those latter 2 are the first to come up following an outfield injury or an infield injury, respectively. No non-sense 3rd catcher. No never was’s like Lester. No Brett Phillips signings. 

O’Hearn and Hicks becoming unbenchable has been a surprise and sure has clogged things. 

I think Frazier, Mateo and Mountcastle are on the clock but Elias’ clock is certainly more patient than I. 

 

Westburg gets traded at deadline for pitching /bullpen help, Cowser stays in Norfolk , Ortiz stays till rosters expand or injury or Mateo goes  , Hicks Hays and Mullins are everyday outfield, McKenna is optioned, Mateo is benched or traded. Frazier stays.  Mountcastle/Ohearn platoon at first, Lester optioned .. Santander mainly DHs .. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by tntoriole

[Safelykept]

4 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

As long as O'hearn and Hicks are productive, I do not want the O's to rid them from us.  What guarantee do we have that Cowser will produce at the MLB level. We need offense this year and for the playoffs. I wouldn't lose sleep if we trade McKenna, Mateo, Stowers and Bemboom.

No guarantee on Cowser, Trading the 4 you suggested. For what. Bemboom would probably pass waivers. Stowers ? somebody picks him up but no trade value same with McKenna Mateo later as a postseason late inning PR. Lottery ticket at best

[dzorange]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

But I don't see a realistic scenario where he can come up to the bigs and outperform right now what Hicks has given us.

When Hicks was signed by the O's, was there a realistic scenario that he would come in and perform what he has given us?

Edited June 21, 2023 by dzorange