When is the best time to call up rookies?

[Bahama O's Fan]

Bring up Westburg and Cowser. Get McKenna and Lester off the major league roster. Bench Mateo and Frazier. Put Ortiz and Westburg at SS and 2B. Put Cowser in RF. Give Santander DH and time at 1B.

[forphase1]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I started the thread on Elly so I'm obviously a fan but I do expect him to run into some issues at some point.

Kinda like how Gunnar started really strong last season and fell off late.

Sure, almost all players go through hot and cold spells.  But like @Frobbyshowed in another thread,  many rookies do not struggle initially or even overall all in their rookie years.   The thought that it's an fact that Westburg or Cowser who whoever is going to struggle initially is not accurate.  They might,  sure.   But they might not also. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

48 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

Why bring up more rookies when Ortiz is up and just sitting on the bench. It’s not about bringing guys up it’s about getting guys up with a plan to get them regular at bats and set them up to be successful. Watching Ortiz just sit on the bench is incredibly frustrating. 

This. If the Orioles are going to value veteranosity over performance, then it doesn't make sense to call up Cowser or Westburg if they are just going to ride the bench with Ortiz.

I don't how much more the team needs to see of Mateo to realize he's not going to be the SS of the future when his hit tool is abysmal. Mateo can be a valuable utility player and pinch runner, but he's a black hole on offense starting 150 games. Frazier is on a one year deal and if he falters it shouldn't be his birthright to play 2B everyday.

 

[RarityFlaherty]

36 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is a struggling rookie going to bring less to the table than a struggling Frazier or Mateo?  At least with the rookies you have future value.

No, but you want veterans starting around the young guys for them to learn from. Let them impart valuable wisdom on the rookies before they get phased out. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

No, but you want veterans starting around the young guys for them to learn from. Let them impart valuable wisdom on the rookies before they get phased out. 

Why even have coaches?

We aren't talking about 19 year olds here.

Cowser is 23 Westburg is 24.  I think they will be OK without Frazier explaining how to flub a double play ball.

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I started the thread on Elly so I'm obviously a fan but I do expect him to run into some issues at some point.

Kinda like how Gunnar started really strong last season and fell off late.

"Rookies will probably struggle at some point" is a different and broader claim than "rookies will always struggle at first". If the timing is unpredictable, it's not really a reason to delay, especially when you also have veterans struggling. Probably every player short of Ohtani level will struggle at some point so the notion that the player will probably struggle and then adjust is not really an argument against rookies.

[RarityFlaherty]

17 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Problem is this isn't really true.  It's a myth that all rookies tend to struggle.  Some do,  of course, but many others don't.   Until we give them a chance we really have no way of knowing if our rookies will struggle or hit the ground running as Elly has done. 

But that’s exactly why you give one guy a chance to struggle at a time. You don’t know what they are going to do. If they don’t struggle, then great, the team won’t have any holes and you’re ready for another guy to move up. If they do struggle, it doesn’t hurt you too much to have one struggling rookie at the bottom of the lineup. 

[RarityFlaherty]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why even have coaches?

We aren't talking about 19 year olds here.

Cowser is 23 Westburg is 24.  I think they will be OK without Frazier explaining how to flub a double play ball.

Coaches can’t be on the field. It’s nice to have a guy out on the field with you that has some experience. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Coaches can’t be on the field. It’s nice to have a guy out on the field with you that has some experience. 

They still would?

Do you think Frazier is going to stop in the middle of an inning and drop some sage advice that can't wait until the inning is over?  I'm at a loss as to what the scenario you are positing looks like.

[Sports Guy]

38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I started the thread on Elly so I'm obviously a fan but I do expect him to run into some issues at some point.

Kinda like how Gunnar started really strong last season and fell off late.

What Elly thread did you start?

[Orioles0615]

They will come up when Norfolk wins the Championship. Actually still won't be shocked when they don't and we trade for Brett Phillips

[RarityFlaherty]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They still would?

Do you think Frazier is going to stop in the middle of an inning and drop some sage advice that can't wait until the inning is over?  I'm at a loss as to what the scenario you are positing looks like.

You don’t think it helps to have guys around you with experience? It doesn’t have to be any kind of sage advice. It’s just guys knowing how to handle scenarios that less experienced players may have never been in. 

[Bemorewins]

I don’t understand what the plan is. Thankfully we are about a month away from having some of this come to a head with the trade deadline window opening up.

At the rate that they are going, I can’t see the O’s playing Frazier and Mateo for another month. They are just not productive enough to justify. 

Also, I know that many want to see prospects come up and I am with them to a degree. However, want I am equally interested in is some upgrades to our starting pitching. I don’t see us sustaining our current level of success with the pitching as is. We have 4 starters right now, of those 3 are “5 and five guys” and the other is a league averageish starter. And only 2/3 reliable bullpen arms.

With all of that said, Elias has some work to do!

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

You don’t think it helps to have guys around you with experience? It doesn’t have to be any kind of sage advice. It’s just guys knowing how to handle scenarios that less experienced players may have never been in. 

I think the value is often overestimated.  These are older prospects.

[NCRaven]

53 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Bring up Westburg and Cowser. Get McKenna and Lester off the major league roster. Bench Mateo and Frazier. Put Ortiz and Westburg at SS and 2B. Put Cowser in RF. Give Santander DH and time at 1B.

I’m close to this.  I would also bring up Westburg and Cowser, along with activating Mullins.  That means three go down.  For me that’s Ortiz, McKenna and Lester.

Westburg plays 3rd, Henderson SS, and Urias 2nd with Mateo and Frazier moving to the bench .  Hicks moves to a corner and Santander becomes the primary DH while getting some time in RF and 1st.