Snell/Hader package

[sportsfan8703]

At what point do we just put Grayson in the pen instead of buying a reliever?  Then we’d only have to buy a SP. 

[bpilktree]

I am still on the phone everyday with the Pirates about Keller.  That would be my number 1 choice.  Young starter that looks to be coming into his zone now and could end up as a top 1-2 of the rotation guy.  The Pirates have had trouble with improvement on their pitchers until they are traded with guys like Cole, Musgrave, and few lower level guys.  I think he is guy our organization can work with to become an upper echelon pitcher for few years.  He still has 2 years of control left as well.   I am sure he may cost more then some posters might want to pay but you have to pay for top talent especially cost controlled guys.  
 

[foxfield]

45 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear you on the CHI SOX guys. But none of them has pitched like an ace this season. With the overabundance of org talent that we have, I would like for us to set our sights higher and acquire a pitcher who can matchup with the big boys in the AL postseason. We are going to need that piece along with a good bullpen arm to win 3 rounds in the AL this year. The competition in our league is fierce! IMO we are not going to be able to luck our way through and get hot like the Phillies did last year in the NL. The AL is way to good this year.

You have been singing this overmatched...luck stuff for over 2 months.  Those big boys you keep saying you're afraid of?  The Astros...Yankees...Toronto?  They are all still behind the Orioles.  You cannot have it both ways.

IF the AL is as tough as you say it is....part of the reason is that the Orioles are pretty damn good.  And have played better...so far...than Houston, NY, Tor and everyone else in MLB except the Braves and the Rays.

It's been this way for over a year.  The Orioles have improved their pitching, and offense over that time and continue to make internal additions.  Everyone would like to see a move to improve the team.  Hopefully a trade can add a significant piece, but even if it doesn't....the current path of this team says it's good enough to make noise now...especially if it gets hot at the right time.

Edited June 27, 2023 by foxfield

[Malike]

5 minutes ago, deward said:

EdRod way out-pitched his career numbers for 11 starts and then got hurt. That's the kind of buy-high deal that I would expect Elias to (rightly) stay well away from. Not to mention, I know he has an opt-out, but if he stays for his whole contract, then he's making the same kind of money that the team wasn't willing to pay out in the off-season. If they weren't willing to give out that kind of contract then, I don't expect them to give up prospects AND take on that kind of contract now.

He's also been a "5 and Dive" guy for his career and is oft injured or needs half a season off for personal reasons. He's certainly no slam dunk to continue pitching like he has and even stay healthy. I wouldn't throw the farm at him, not a chance.

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, deward said:

EdRod way out-pitched his career numbers for 11 starts and then got hurt. That's the kind of buy-high deal that I would expect Elias to (rightly) stay well away from. Not to mention, I know he has an opt-out, but if he stays for his whole contract, then he's making the same kind of money that the team wasn't willing to pay out in the off-season. If they weren't willing to give out that kind of contract then, I don't expect them to give up prospects AND take on that kind of contract now.

1) Unless he gets re-injured, he most probably is opting out (as he should).

2) If by the off chance he decided not to opt out, his contract is very reasonable. He is not being paid as a #1. When he was an FA the org wasn't in a position to be buyers on pitchers of his caliber.

3) You can always find a way to talk yourself out of acquiring any player. If we are able to trade for someone who is better/having a better season then I am all for that. But standing pat, will most likely lead to an early postseason exit.

As things stand now, we will be at a pitching disadvantage against just about every postseason competitor. You may be able to beat the odds and luck your way out of one series. But to think that we can win 3 series in the AL given who our competitors will be sending to the bump as compared to who we will, is not very wise and may even possess some hubris or even magical thinking.

[sportsfan8703]

After looking through things…. David Robertson and Jordan Montgomery look like good fits it their teams are selling. 
 

Robertson is an upcoming FA. Montgomery has a year of control through next season. 

[sportsfan8703]

Are we really that outgunned?  We’re looking at a 1st rd matchup with whoever limps out of the Central. 
 

The Rays are looking at a 1st rd matchup versus NYY or TOR. 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, foxfield said:

You have been singing this overmatched...luck stuff for over 2 months.  Those big boys you keep saying you're afraid of?  The Astros...Yankees...Toronto?  They are all still behind the Orioles.  You cannot have it both ways.

IF the AL is as tough as you say it is....part of the reason is that the Orioles are pretty damn good.  And have played better...so far...than Houston, NY, Tor and everyone else in MLB except the Braves and the Rays.

It's been this way for over a year.  The Orioles have improved their pitching, and offense over that time and continue to make internal additions.  Everyone would like to see a move to improve the team.  Hopefully a trade can add a significant piece, but even if it doesn't....the current path of this team says it's good enough to make noise now...especially if it gets hot at the right time.

I think you have me confused with someone else, if you believe that I said that we were "overmatched" in the REGULAR SEASON. I NEVER said that we were "lucky". We are wonderfully built to be successful in the regular season because we have such great depth. 

The problem is that in the postseason, they are short series.

The Yankees as an example don't have much depth because they have an older/oft injured, top-heavy/stars and scrubs type of roster. IF they get healthy by the postseason and we have to match up with them for a short 3 game series, it could be a serious problem IMO. They could have Rodon back by then to pair with Garret Cole. Additionally, Wells has been very homer prone this season, if he had to make a start in Yankee Stadium against guys like Judge and Stanton (if he was healthy) that could be a HUGE problem.

Lastly, I am not interested "in making noise". That doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. We have way too much talent within our organization to settle for such a low bar. IMO we should be trying to put ourselves in a position to seriously challenge for a championship. And IMO we need to make improvements to our roster in order to do that.

Do you really believe that as things stand now, we would beat the Rays in a 5 or 7 game series?

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Speaking of the Mets… I like David Robertson. Expiring deal. Only signed for 1/10 this past offseason. Would be cheaper than Hader. Wouldn’t get ran wild on like Chapman. He’s a “trusted” vet arm too. Playoff tested. 

I'm not against that type of acquisition at all. He or Chapman would be fine by me. But both are the types of guys that we need to bridge the gap to the back end of our bullpen. Right now we have 3 trusted relievers (2 of which are elite), two guys who are mediocre, and the rest of our pen is really bad. 

IMO that's not going to get it done in October.

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, Malike said:

He's also been a "5 and Dive" guy for his career and is oft injured or needs half a season off for personal reasons. He's certainly no slam dunk to continue pitching like he has and even stay healthy. I wouldn't throw the farm at him, not a chance.

He's not going to cost the farm. He has already had an injury this season and has an opt out at the end of the year.

By the way, I have asked several posters for clarification and/or insight regarding what "giving up/throwing the farm" at a player means and not a single one has provided ONE SINGLE scenario where we would have to "give up the farm" in a trade. What would "throwing the farm" at Rodriguez realistically look like?

[Malike]

The playoffs are about the bullpen. We're making it out like every team we're going to be facing will be rolling out aces every game. The leash gets really fricking short in the playoffs and you need the bullpen arms to shut teams down.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Malike said:

The playoffs are about the bullpen. We're making it out like every team we're going to be facing will be rolling out aces every game. The leash gets really fricking short in the playoffs and you need the bullpen arms to shut teams down.

Yep..adding a high end back end BP arm is critical imo.

[Malike]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yep..adding a high end back end BP arm is critical imo.

Probably the biggest need we have right now. The middle relief corps are a shambles and unreliable as hell.

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Are we really that outgunned?  We’re looking at a 1st rd matchup with whoever limps out of the Central. 
 

The Rays are looking at a 1st rd matchup versus NYY or TOR. 

I think that we could potentially beat the Twins. But have you looked at their rotation compared to ours?

But to answer your question about being outgunned, what odds would you give us (as things currently stand) to win 3 post season series to get through the AL when every team we face in all 3 rounds has better starting pitchers than we do?

By the way, I thought the top 2 seeds get a buy in the first round and the remaining 4 teams play one another? Is that not the case? If that is the case, we would host the Yankees, no?

[MurphDogg]

19 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Are we really that outgunned?  We’re looking at a 1st rd matchup with whoever limps out of the Central. 
 

The Rays are looking at a 1st rd matchup versus NYY or TOR. 

The Rays are looking at a 1st round bye along with the Rangers.

We are looking at a matchup vs. the number 2 wild card (NYY as it sits now) and the winner of the Central would play the number 3 wild card (TOR as it sits now).