Do you trust Elias at the Deadline?

[lifelongbirdfan]

I didn’t trust Duquette. For as successful as DD was, the trade deadline was not his forte.

When buying, he gave up Josh Hader, Eduardo Rodriquez, even Jonah Heim. When selling, his deals for Gausman and Machado turned up as duds.

My point is that trades with prospects involved are a crapshoot, but the O’s don’t have a great track record.  This is what concerns me about grow the bats, buy the arms… Are we actually going to be able to buy arms?

While Elias was aggressive and did very well dumping Mancini and Lopez, I think he’s going to be gun-shy as a buyer at this deadline. Like he was in Free Agency, he assigns a value and sticks with it, even if the market says otherwise. Elias was too disciplined for his own good and we got left with nothing because he wasn’t willing to overpay.  Just like free agency, there’s risk involved and some bad options with only a few good ones mixed in. We can’t afford to be wrong but can’t afford to just sit back and watch.

Considered pitchers that I’m glad we didn’t get: Degrom, Rodon, Thor, Quintana, Taillon, KLuber,

Considered pitchers that I wish we had:  Eovaldi, Wacha, Eflin

So yes, there are more bad deals than good ones, so Elias can say he avoided a mistake, but we also didn't have a chance at a starter either.  With more buyers than sellers, prices will be high and I don’t trust Elias as a buyer because I don't think he'll pull the trigger. But if I he does get aggressive, I think he'll be more successful than DD was. What do you think?

[Explosivo]

Yes. We and Sig and Eve will make the right call. No worries about that at all.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, lifelongbirdfan said:

I didn’t trust Duquette. For as successful as DD was, the trade deadline was not his forte.

When buying, he gave up Josh Hader, Eduardo Rodriquez, even Jonah Heim. When selling, his deals for Gausman and Machado turned up as duds.

My point is that trades with prospects involved are a crapshoot, but the O’s don’t have a great track record.  This is what concerns me about grow the bats, buy the arms… Are we actually going to be able to buy arms?

While Elias was aggressive and did very well dumping Mancini and Lopez, I think he’s going to be gun-shy as a buyer at this deadline. Like he was in Free Agency, he assigns a value and sticks with it, even if the market says otherwise. Elias was too disciplined for his own good and we got left with nothing because he wasn’t willing to overpay.  Just like free agency, there’s risk involved and some bad options with only a few good ones mixed in. We can’t afford to be wrong but can’t afford to just sit back and watch.

Considered pitchers that I’m glad we didn’t get: Degrom, Rodon, Thor, Quintana, Taillon, KLuber,

Considered pitchers that I wish we had:  Eovaldi, Wacha, Eflin

So yes, there are more bad deals than good ones, so Elias can say he avoided a mistake, but we also didn't have a chance at a starter either.  With more buyers than sellers, prices will be high and I don’t trust Elias as a buyer because I don't think he'll pull the trigger. But if I he does get aggressive, I think he'll be more successful than DD was. What do you think?

I don't think it is fair to describe the Gausman deal as a dud.

His goal was to dump both the Gausman and O'Day contacts and he succeeded. 

I also don't think a better deal for Machado was out there.  They had a market of one.  They waited too long to trade him.

[wildcard]

I trust Elias's development.

[Three Run Homer]

I trust Elias.  I don't trust Elias' bosses.  

[foxfield]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I trust Elias's development.

I trust Elias.  However, I do think that the fine line between being a strong competitive team today and tomorrow and brining at least one championship to Baltimore will require some smart risks or a lot of money.  And since we have no reason to believe in the money...we wait, some more patiently than others, for the moves that exchange talent for talent in ways that help move the needle in the present.

I trust Elias, but he will be judged on ultimate success or the lack thereof, regardless of where the "system" ranks.  So that means that I am very pleased at how he has built a competitor. But now that we are here.....I want to win and I want to continue to be a competitor.  I think he is on track, but he is entering the window of opportunity.  And I am very interested to see how the next few months pan out.

[Bemorewins]

42 minutes ago, lifelongbirdfan said:

I didn’t trust Duquette. For as successful as DD was, the trade deadline was not his forte.

When buying, he gave up Josh Hader, Eduardo Rodriquez, even Jonah Heim. When selling, his deals for Gausman and Machado turned up as duds.

My point is that trades with prospects involved are a crapshoot, but the O’s don’t have a great track record.  This is what concerns me about grow the bats, buy the arms… Are we actually going to be able to buy arms?

While Elias was aggressive and did very well dumping Mancini and Lopez, I think he’s going to be gun-shy as a buyer at this deadline. Like he was in Free Agency, he assigns a value and sticks with it, even if the market says otherwise. Elias was too disciplined for his own good and we got left with nothing because he wasn’t willing to overpay.  Just like free agency, there’s risk involved and some bad options with only a few good ones mixed in. We can’t afford to be wrong but can’t afford to just sit back and watch.

Considered pitchers that I’m glad we didn’t get: Degrom, Rodon, Thor, Quintana, Taillon, KLuber,

Considered pitchers that I wish we had:  Eovaldi, Wacha, Eflin

So yes, there are more bad deals than good ones, so Elias can say he avoided a mistake, but we also didn't have a chance at a starter either.  With more buyers than sellers, prices will be high and I don’t trust Elias as a buyer because I don't think he'll pull the trigger. But if I he does get aggressive, I think he'll be more successful than DD was. What do you think?

I think that it is a real mistake to blame Elias for our failures in FA this past offseason. The real problem is the awful ownership. I have seen nothing from John Angelos that even suggests that he is interested in the team competing for a championship, let alone him actually spending serious money. Look at all of his quotes and every time he talks to the money, it is about ANY AND EVERYTHING ELSE but about the Orioles competing for pennants and him interested in supporting that efforts by way of his financial investment.

Now as for trades, Elias can only take on salaries if the evil Angelos empire allows him to do so. 

[Bemorewins]

21 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I trust Elias.  I don't trust Elias' bosses.  

THIS TIMES 1,000,000!!!!!!!!!!

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

THIS TIMES 1,000,000!!!!!!!!!!

I think you left your caps lock on and your exclamation point key appears to be sticking.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I think that it is a real mistake to blame Elias for our failures in FA this past offseason. The real problem is the awful ownership. I have seen nothing from John Angelos that even suggests that he is interested in the team competing for a championship, let alone him actually spending serious money. Look at all of his quotes and every time he talks to the money, it is about ANY AND EVERYTHING ELSE but about the Orioles competing for pennants and him interested in supporting that efforts by way of his financial investment.

Now as for trades, Elias can only take on salaries if the evil Angelos empire allows him to do so. 

Elias has repeatedly said that the money is there to spend when he thinks the team is ready to compete.

Is he lying?

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think you left your caps lock on and your exclamation point key appears to be sticking.

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Elias has repeatedly said that the money is there to spend when he thinks the team is ready to compete.

Is he lying?

I think so. I don't think he could/would make comments that reveal the truth about his awful owner and his terrible cheapness. He knows not to bite the hand that feeds him. That is career/professional suicide as these owners tend to stick together. 

[Aristotelian]

I trust him to not do anything that will cost us badly long term. That may translate to underwhelming in the short term.

[btdart20]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I trust him to not do anything that will cost us badly long term. That may translate to underwhelming in the short term.

Agreed.

He did well last offseason in his first real tough decision.  He seems like the type of guy that “plans the work and works the plan.”  So I trust him to do his due diligence.  We fans might be underwhelmed if we’re looking at a strict 2023 perspective.  Perennial contender is the goal.

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

I trust Elias.  I don't trust Elias' bosses.  

This. Exactly what I said when he was hired. As long as an Angelos is in charge there won’t be much trust.