Jack Flaherty acquired for Cesar Prieto, Drew Rom, and Zach Showalter

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

I thought they did away with that on traded pieces?

I thought it had always been that way. The threat of QO probably explains why we needed to add Rom. 

[yark14]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

We still need another RP

John Alan Means

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, jerios55 said:

Then maybe a QO to get something to offset the pieces traded?  

WHAT?

He's making 5.4M this year.  He's pitching OK.

Zero chance he was going to get hit with a QO.  Last QO value was over 19M.  He'd take it in a heartbeat.

[OakOrioles]

3 hours ago, Flash- bd said:

Feels like people are seriously underestimating what it takes to acquire a good starting pitcher even for a rental. Prieto and Rom had little future here, I am totally pleased to acquire a genuine contributor to our postseason push / postseason for two players who it's quite unlikely we'll miss. 

This is nothing like when we traded top 10 prospects like Davies for Parra or Eduardo Rodríguez (top 5) for Andrew Miller (I know Miller was a good acquisition, but I wasn't a fan of that trade for a rental, still). 

We've traded a top 20 prospect and a borderline top 30. Approve of this trade and like it. 

 

Folks here are good for that I’ve noticed. Placing way too much value on the prospects in the system. Remember, prospect values can be conceptualized but at the end the day, the buying and selling team ultimately determine the value of the players. 
 

Elias is quoted as saying they took some big swings and it didn’t happen. I’m assuming Verlander (maybe Cease?). We got a guy who can pitch in the post season and we didn’t have to deal ANY of the Top 10 prospects that we have, nor did we take on huge payroll. 
 

Maybe advanced analytics and Holt see something with Flaherty that they can build on. If he likes it here and pitches well, maybe could be a chance to sign him to a deal in the off-season too? 

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Some further thoughts now that the full return for Flaherty is known.  That’s a little more than I would have liked to have given up for a rental.  However, we didn’t give up anyone who was likely to be a significant part of our future.  Rom will reach the majors, but his upside is pretty limited and he could be a AAAA type.  Prieto was going to be buried behind our other IF prospects.  Showalter is interesting and has more upside than the other two, but we’re years away from knowing if he can be a decent major league pitcher.  

Back to Flaherty, he’s a very useful acquisition for us.  He has a 3.45 ERA over his last 12 starts, averaging 5.86 IP/start in that span.  He allows us to be patient will Wells, and to give any other starter who needs a breather over the last two months.  It keeps Irvin in the pen and we can move Wells there if need be, which will alleviate some of our bullpen issues.   

So is it super-excited about Flaherty?  No.   Is he a huge upgrade to our rotation?  No.  Did we give up a little more than I liked?  Yep.  But the team is a little better than it was before, and we have a bit more flexibility and depth.  

 

We gave up less for this rental than most teams did and you think it’s a lot?

I don’t get this thought at all. We gave up one potentially promising player who is years away and is far more likely to fail than be good.

Rom is a throw in that doesn’t even need to be mentioned and Prieto has no future here.

 

[frankwhite]

I would've preferred Montgomery but if he can continue what he has done in July going into August, I'm fine with this move. I'm not happy with Showalter being included but I understand. Hopefully he can contribute. Welcome to Baltimore, Jack. 

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We gave up less for this rental than most teams did and you think it’s a lot?

I don’t get this thought at all. We gave up one potentially promising player who is years away and is far more likely to fail than be good.

Rom is a throw in that doesn’t even need to be mentioned and Prieto has no future here.

 

To be honest, I haven’t studied the players that other teams gave up, nor have I even absorbed all the moves that happened.   I just looked at who we gave up.  Plus, when I first heard about this deal, it seemed to be just Prieto.  Then it seemed to be Prieto and Rom.  Then it’s Prieto, Rom and Showalter.   So, the cost as reported kept going up, which was annoying.

The fact that you think we got a pretty good deal compared to other deals that were done is comforting to me, because frankly, you spend a lot more time thinking about trades and studying the possibilities than I do.  

[Just Regular]

Jaffe on the BAL side - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jack-flaherty-joins-a-new-flock-in-baltimore/

Longenhagen on the STL side - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/st-louis-gets-quantity-over-quality-for-flaherty/

Jaffe's story wonders if as a young star the 215 innings in his early peak season might have been too much too soon for a promising young pitcher.

[Frobby]

Eric Longenhagen did a piece mostly focusing on what the Orioles gave up, which he summed up this way:

“As a return for the Jack Flaherty who looked like one of the better pitchers in the NL for a little while, it feels light. But for the recently vanilla, free-agent-to-be Jack Flaherty, it makes sense for St. Louis to have received a few lesser prospects.”

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/st-louis-gets-quantity-over-quality-for-flaherty/

[Matt Bennett]

I like it. With all of our young pitchers and their inning limits, we needed a body. Flaherty is a body. Maybe he can be more than a body. He has been before. Anecdotally, I think the O's have had some success getting command troubled pitchers to pound the zone and achieve better results: Bautista, Cano, Bradish, Kremer...Akin & Perez for a time. 

Perhaps there will be a longer term reallocation of assets from position players to pitchers in the off-season, but the deadline isn't really the time to do that. It was a seller's market and as Elias noted, the buyer almost always loses in whatever value calculator they have. The prospects we gave up aren't much. I'm conservative with projecting roles for position players. I think people have blown up this position player glut a bit and label prospects redundant a little too fast. But even I couldn't come up with a spot for Prieto. Without a plus tool other than contact, I feel like Prieto is gonna have to show some serious Luis Arraez flashes to be a productive regular. 

A beautiful core of young players already in the majors, still the #1 farm system, nothing on the payroll long term, first in AL. Things are good. Good luck to Flaherty and go O's

[Frobby]

Comments from Jay Jaffe:

“one would have expected a team in the Orioles’ position to come away from the trade deadline either with higher quality or greater quantity than just Flaherty, who at this stage is a quasi-LAIM (League Average Innings Muncher), albeit one with merely a modest appetite for innings based on his spotty track record for health. If a contact-oriented Cardinals starter about to hit free agency was the order of the day, why couldn’t the Orioles land the more durable and reliable Jordan Montgomery, who was instead traded to the Rangers? Maybe a change of scenery will help Flaherty, but an AL East where all five teams are above .500 is hardly the most hospitable landing spot for pitchers in need of a new backdrop.”

* * *

“While Elias sees this team as one whose competitive window is just starting to open, perhaps he and the Orioles will look back and wish they had dug a bit — or a lot — deeper to round out their rotation in pursuit of October success.”

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jack-flaherty-joins-a-new-flock-in-baltimore/#ntv-lightbox1214749-557216

[Tony-OH]

Quite simply, the Orioles didn't give up a top 14 prospect in their organization for a major league starter. Wells could now potentially be moved to the pen to become that dominant 8th inning guy too if they choose to limit his innings.

Would I have preferred to get Cease? Sure.

Was I hoping for more? Sure. 

Do I think this makes sense for the Orioles? Sure!

 

[Billy F-Face3]

Supposedly we needed someone "to eat innings" or "improve our odds in the post season". Falherty does none of that. He hasn't had a full season of baseball since 2019. And he's failed to get past 60 innings in 4 out of 7 seasons.

At that rate, your better off rolling the dice with what you have in the farm system. I particularly don't like giving up Showalter because I think he's one of those players who extend the window to keep winning seasons down the road. He will be special.

Not a fan of this trade. If it was just Prieto, I'd be OK. But even then I'd equate it on par with the Cole Irvin trade.

[e16bball]

Interesting tidbit I noticed while looking at Flaherty’s stats: he’s one of the best RHPs in the modern era at controlling the running game. 

In well over 600 innings, he’s allowed a total of NINE stolen bases. And there have only been 19 total attempts against him in that whole span (with 10, more than half, obviously getting caught). No one has ever even tried to steal 3rd base off him.

In the last 50+ years, only Flaherty and the late Yordano Ventura (of all people) have permitted such infrequent base stealing (one per every 70ish innings) as RHPs. And it’s worth noting that the numbers were even more staggering prior to the last calendar year, when 4 bags have been stolen on him while working with the pop-gun arm of one Andrew Knizner (he of the dreadful 9% CS rate this season). 

On some level, it’s just a fun note about the new pitcher — but with the new rules, and our franchise catcher’s relative struggles throwing out base stealers, it’s an ability that may prove more vital than it would have been in years gone by.

[Malike]

"The top of our prospect list is as good as is out there," Elias said. "It took a long time to get people off of that part of the list."

 

"A lot of teams really fixated on a lot of players that we had that we just didn't feel were appropriate to go in those deals," Elias said. "That's part of why this went to the last minute for us."