Bullpen Struggles and Possible Changes

[EddeeEddee]

28 minutes ago, vab said:

You can't always knee-jerk and cut guys or move them out of their roles when they struggle a bit. Sometimes you just have to work with guys and get them back on track. That's largely the case with this bullpen. Elias determined the price of the relievers out there was either too high or they weren't significant enough upgrades. I don't know if he was right but he gets the benefit of the doubt with me. 

There were certainly significant upgrades to be had, but he must have judged the price too high.  And Elias is still adding to the team as he did with Webb just this week. 

But the other issue is, as already pointed out, Wells, Means and Givens all could come back later this month or next.  Could DL Hall be ready?  If so, can any of them fill out the 7th or 8th inning roles?  And could any of them close for when Bautista needs rest?

[Billy F-Face3]

4 hours ago, vab said:

You can't always knee-jerk and cut guys or move them out of their roles when they struggle a bit. Sometimes you just have to work with guys and get them back on track. That's largely the case with this bullpen. Elias determined the price of the relievers out there was either too high or they weren't significant enough upgrades. I don't know if he was right but he gets the benefit of the doubt with me. 

That's what I thought too, but they were pretty quick to option Baker and Wells. Also, if people just knee jerk cut guys like that, then Bautista would have been optioned early in the year before he had a chance to prove how valuable he is to the team. ...Same for Gunnar based on some people's reactions back in April.

[sportsfan8703]

I would imagine our pen is only Fuji, Baumann, Webb, and Khreibel tonight. 

[Billy F-Face3]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I would imagine our pen is only Fuji, Baumann, Webb, and Khreibel tonight. 

Yikes. Baumann is the only guy I somewhat trust there. And that's only about 65% of the time.

[dystopia]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I would imagine our pen is only Fuji, Baumann, Webb, and Khreibel tonight. 

Cano should be good for tonight. 

[waroriole]

Some folks are hilarious when the sky starts falling. Felix had two shaky games against the reigning WS champs. It happens. He’s been dominant all season, and way better than Robertson. 
 

That said, obviously the bullpen is looking rough right now. It’s what we’ve been saying all year. Guys are getting overexposed. Between Hall, Wells and Means coming up in the next few weeks, and potentially having Grayson pitch out of the bullpen in the playoffs, I think our pitching will be ok when it matters most. 

[baltfan]

15 hours ago, ledzepp8 said:

Wait a second. So Bautista doesn't give up a run for like a month and a half and two poor outings means he should be replaced? And/or Elias should have had the foresight to have a veteran replacement in the wings?

People also seem to be missing that in the attempt to get him more rest, which of course I support, he is likely a bit rusty.  His command wasn't the same in either outing.  

[schittenden]

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but they were talking on The Leadoff Spot this morning on MLB Network Radio, and they indicated that Bautista is tipping his pitches. I’m not sure who was speaking (Eduardo Perez maybe?), but he seemed to indicate he knew what it was but that he wasn’t going to say because he thought it was on other teams to figure out what it is. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by schittenden

[AdamK]

1 hour ago, schittenden said:

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but they were talking on The Leadoff Spot this morning on MLB Network Radio, and they indicated that Bautista is tipping his pitches. I’m not sure who was speaking (Eduardo Perez maybe?), but he seemed to indicate he knew what it was but that he wasn’t going to say because he thought it was on other teams to figure out what it is. 

This from March of this year: https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/felix-bautista-orioles-bullpen-pitch-tipping-MZPANC4JHRGONHUIQX34XHDKKM/

Quote

Bautista always holds the ball inside his glove near his belt when he first stands on the pitching rubber. For a fastball, as his left leg rises, his glove also rises. But when Bautista throws a splitter or a slider, his glove remains at or near his belt while his leg rises, and for the astute hitter, that minor difference is enough to know whether to gear up for a 100-mph pitch or prepare for an offering at least 10 mph slower.

 

[tntoriole]

10 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

There were certainly significant upgrades to be had, but he must have judged the price too high.  And Elias is still adding to the team as he did with Webb just this week. 

But the other issue is, as already pointed out, Wells, Means and Givens all could come back later this month or next.  Could DL Hall be ready?  If so, can any of them fill out the 7th or 8th inning roles?  And could any of them close for when Bautista needs rest?

Or they all could have setbacks or not contribute and none of them can fill closer role imho except in noncloser situations. 
Maybe a 7th or 8th inning role but even that is still a big question mark.. 

[schittenden]

18 minutes ago, AdamK said:

This from March of this year: https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/felix-bautista-orioles-bullpen-pitch-tipping-MZPANC4JHRGONHUIQX34XHDKKM/

 

Hard to know whether he fell back into that pattern or if it’s something else. The host was indicating that there was something Bautista was doing that told the hitters to layoff and not swing. 

[lfallo1]

2 hours ago, schittenden said:

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but they were talking on The Leadoff Spot this morning on MLB Network Radio, and they indicated that Bautista is tipping his pitches. I’m not sure who was speaking (Eduardo Perez maybe?), but he seemed to indicate he knew what it was but that he wasn’t going to say because he thought it was on other teams to figure out what it is. 

Well, if there was ever a team adept at "picking up" pitchers' pitches.

Edited August 11, 2023 by lfallo1

[HakunaSakata]

18 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Bautista is not a proven closer. A nice story, but he hasn't been a top closer even for an entire season.

If you factor in what Bautista did last season (after Lopez was traded) and this season, it's been a full season. Archaic arbitrary endpoints (i.e., he hasn't done it for an entire season) mean absolutely nothing in the world of statistics. 

[sportsfan8703]

The Tigers just released LH RP Chasen Shreeve. He’s a vet LH RP. He could be a 1:1 replacement for Coloumbe.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/08/tigers-designate-chasen-shreve-for-assignment.html

Akin to the 60 day IL would free up a 40 man spot. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by sportsfan8703

[OnlyOneOriole]

You have to have confidence in Bautista.  Because if you don't?   There is absolutely no one in the bullpen that I trust.    It is a complete cesspool besides him. 

 

It has gotten that bad.  In fact I am not sure if I have ever seen such a bad bullpen on a contender as what the O's have. 

 

Next year Elias needs to shore that up as his first, second, and third priority.