Bullpen Struggles and Possible Changes

[Chelsea_Phil]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Bautista is fine.  FFS

FFS?  That’s an expression the Brits use, not us here in the US.

[tntoriole]

59 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Clearly the Oriole bullpen is struggling more than earlier in the season.  At one point the bullpen was considered this team's strength, though now it may be the O's biggest vulnerability.

Perhaps the O's should use than one closer for the rest of the season.  For whatever reason Bautista is not as consistent as he was earlier on -- and even earlier on he could be shaky on occasion.  Maybe when Wells returns he can close some -- or when Givens and Means return they can close some (though that's far from a given -- no pun intended).  Cano can close sometimes too, though I think Hyde and most everyone prefers him in the 8th inning or sometimes earlier than the 8th.

Fujinami?  I think no way he closes.  In fact, I'm wondering if Fujinami gets cut at some point when the other pitchers -- mainly Wells, Means and Givens but others too -- return from the IL and the minors.  Fujinami looked quite promising earlier on but recently he's shown he's the scariest pitcher on the team -- and not in a good way.  

Most of us wanted Elias to do more to bring another strong reliever on the team.  I think Elias goofed by not getting a David Robertson or some other strong closer.  But now that that's in the past, what can be -- or should be -- done to strengthen the bullpen?  Is it just a matter of waiting for the guys I mentioned above already to come back from the IL or the minors?  Or can other changes be made?  

By the way if the moderators think this thread should be combined with an existing bullpen thread, then go for it.  Looking forward to other's thoughts.

 

 Come now .. because he lost one save to arguably the best team in AL and WS champions and had trouble today with same means nothing really against at least 29 other teams.
 

Bautista can close every time successfully against bad to mediocre and even ok teams even WITHOUT solitter control.  But he needs it against the top lineups in most instances.  When he has it, he not only closes , he makes hitters look stupid. 
 

The problem is Cano and there being NO other lockdowns in the pen.  But that is what we have.  I do think Wells could be a lockdown guy if velo back up. 
 

Fuji is a head case. Great arm and dominant but then melts down in an instant. Not reliable enough to close. 

I expect zero from Givens, Tate , even Means who has not pitched in a bullpen since 2019

[HakunaSakata]

23 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

I said, in the event that Elias would have gotten a proven closer at the deadline. It was clearly a hypothetical.

Why would Elias have gotten a proven closer...when he already had one? Literally speaking, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Bautista and he is arguably the best closer in the game this season. He is far  from being the problem and there is no world in which taking him out of the closer role (even if they had traded for a closer) would make this team better. 

[Sports Guy]

Who is starting to worry about Gunnar because he is slumping recently?

[SilverRocket]

Nothing about these two games have made me think Bautista shouldn't be the closer the rest of the way. And while I'm not expecting Cionel Perez to be at the level of last year, he seems to have found it and has had a good month and a half. I think he can handle some higher leverage spots and get the ball in the 8th inning regularly.

Honestly I'm not all that worried about the bullpen in the end. I don't think it'll be elite, but with Wells and Hall coming, and possibly Means, there'll be a lot of options to rotate between. We don't need them all to pan out.

[CanadianOsFan]

45 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

This is honestly the first time I have seen anyone say that Bautista should be moved out of the closer's role. Whoa, that would be way premature. He had a bad series. But he needs to figure out his control problems. Hopefully, this was just a blip and he will come back strong. As you said, there's no one on the roster that could replace him. Elias could have traded for a veteran closer at the deadline, but didn't.

Now Cano, that's another story. He has been bad since the beginning of July. There's definitely something wrong there. I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved out of the setup role. I think it's overdue.

Agree 100%. Bautista is fine. His stuff is still looking good and i expect this is just a bump in the road. Cano though...he needs to be moved from the 8th and only start clean innings for a bit. I believe after today he has now allowed 7 of his last 9 inherited runners to score dating back to July. His pitches appear very hittable these days and i would be worried about him going forward.

[sportsfan8703]

Not too many teams have a 1-4 like Altuve, Bregman, Alvarez, Tucker. If healthy, and no ballot stuffing, that could be the top of the AL ASG lineup. 

Is Coloumbe done?  Irvin was hitting 94/95 out of the pen, but now he’s our 6th SP. Do we trust Perez?  Means?  Vespi?  Hall? Why did we not give Darwinzon a shot?

Wells could be the RH MR/SU man that we need. 

Webb looks like a conventional RH RP that will benefit from the wall. 

There is a lot of time left before the playoffs. We could see a team that is out of it DFA or release a reliever.  We should be all over that.

[dystopia]

4 minutes ago, CanadianOsFan said:

Agree 100%. Bautista is fine. His stuff is still looking good and i expect this is just a bump in the road. Cano though...he needs to be moved from the 8th and only start clean innings for a bit. I believe after today he has now allowed 7 of his last 9 inherited runners to score dating back to July. His pitches appear very hittable these days and i would be worried about him going forward.

I was listening on the radio but it sounded like he pitched pretty well today, he was throwing strikes and got beat on a good pitch. Perez was the goat for putting those runners on, the second via a stupid attempted barehand play. 

 

[ledzepp8]

11 minutes ago, CanadianOsFan said:

Agree 100%. Bautista is fine. His stuff is still looking good and i expect this is just a bump in the road. Cano though...he needs to be moved from the 8th and only start clean innings for a bit. I believe after today he has now allowed 7 of his last 9 inherited runners to score dating back to July. His pitches appear very hittable these days and i would be worried about him going forward.

I thought Cano looked fine today. He made a pretty good pitch (that broke 6 inches out of the zone) that a good hitter blooped into RF (the story of this series). There's not much you can do about that.

[Camden Yards]

We need to step back from the ledge! Let’s look at the big picture. There will be ups and downs all season long. The bullpen will be fine. Did we think Bautista was going to have a sub 1 era all season? Again big picture: on August 10th he has 31 saves, 1.66 ERA, 0.98 WHIP, 6-2 record, and 104ks in 54 innings! That is ELITE. After Bautista we have lots of depth long term.

Cano, Baumann, Fuji, Perez, Webb, Coulombe, Irvin, Baker, Krehbel, Hall, Means, Wells, and maybe GROD or Kremer in the playoffs.

We have played 115 games and have the best record in the AL by three games in the loss column. Things are GREAT!! Let’s focus on some positives!

[Uli2001]

38 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Why would Elias have gotten a proven closer...when he already had one? Literally speaking, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Bautista and he is arguably the best closer in the game this season. He is far  from being the problem and there is no world in which taking him out of the closer role (even if they had traded for a closer) would make this team better. 

Bautista is not a proven closer. A nice story, but he hasn't been a top closer even for an entire season.

[Uli2001]

3 minutes ago, Camden Yards said:

We need to step back from the ledge! Let’s look at the big picture. There will be ups and downs all season long. The bullpen will be fine. Did we think Bautista was going to have a sub 1 era all season? Again big picture: on August 10th he has 31 saves, 1.66 ERA, 0.98 WHIP, 6-2 record, and 104ks in 54 innings! That is ELITE. After Bautista we have lots of depth long term.

Cano, Baumann, Fuji, Perez, Webb, Coulombe, Irvin, Baker, Krehbel, Hall, Means, Wells, and maybe GROD or Kremer in the playoffs.

We have played 115 games and have the best record in the AL by three games in the loss column. Things are GREAT!! Let’s focus on some positives!

Hey John Angelos, shouldn't you be at work?

[EddeeEddee]

I realize I talked too much about the closer role in the OP.  I meant to talk about the bullpen in general -- 7th and 8th inning roles -- not just closing.  What I should have added is that the rest of the bullpen appears to be a bigger problem than Bautista -- with Bautista's main problem, if any, is they may not want to use him as much as he's been used already.

So, when I mentioned others closing I did not mean to replace Bautista -- but just step in to the closer role from time to time -- like Cano has done.  Bautista has only pitched three times this month.  If that's the case the other two obvious candidates -- Cano and Fujinami -- are not the best options.

And if anything, Bautista, like everyone has suggested, is the O's best reliever.  I just don't want to see him overworked the rest of the way. 

So, the concerns are more about the bullpen as a whole and who are the most likely candidates to help out if this becomes more of a slippery slope.

 

 

[Camden Yards]

1 minute ago, Uli2001 said:

Hey John Angelos, shouldn't you be at work?

Just facts my friend 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

20 minutes ago, CanadianOsFan said:

Agree 100%. Bautista is fine. His stuff is still looking good and i expect this is just a bump in the road. Cano though...he needs to be moved from the 8th and only start clean innings for a bit. I believe after today he has now allowed 7 of his last 9 inherited runners to score dating back to July. His pitches appear very hittable these days and i would be worried about him going forward.

Omly one issue with that if you don't pitch Cano in the 8th inning then who do you give the ball to? Coulombe is now on the IL, Perez is up and down, and that leaves Baumann as the most likely candidate.

I'm still inclined to stick with Cano, but try to bring him in at the start of the inning instead of with runners on base.