Bullpen Struggles and Possible Changes

[ledzepp8]

9 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Is the bullpen really struggling?  It had a tough series ( mostly Bautista) for sure but they hadn’t given up a run in the month of August coming into Tuesday.  

It amazes me how people discount the opponent they face and expect the pitchers to never give up any hits or runs. We were playing the Astros. Defending world champs and a good team.

[oriole]

I doubt they move Bautista out of the closers role…his issue seems to be confidence in his pitches and taking him out of that role will probably make it worse. Plus, there’s no one else near as good as him on the team right now.

 

I think an addition of some guys likes Hall, Wells, and hopefully a healthy Givens will be really helpful down the stretch. I don’t think Fujinami was the answer, but it was worth a shot. I see the reasoning and appeal

[EddeeEddee]

5 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Just looked it up since the Saturday night Yankee game (8 games) the bullpen had pitched 25 innings and gave up 1 earned run.  The bullpen isn’t going to be as good as that stretch but not gonna be as bad as last 3 either.

When you say they gave up 1 earned run, are you including the inherited runners that scored while they pitched that are not counted against their ERAs?

[Uli2001]

1 minute ago, oriole said:

I doubt they move Bautista out of the closers role…his issue seems to be confidence in his pitches and taking him out of that role will probably make it worse. Plus, there’s no one else near as good as him on the team right now.

 

I think an addition of some guys likes Hall, Wells, and hopefully a healthy Givens will be really helpful down the stretch. I don’t think Fujinami was the answer, but it was worth a shot. I see the reasoning and appeal

This is honestly the first time I have seen anyone say that Bautista should be moved out of the closer's role. Whoa, that would be way premature. He had a bad series. But he needs to figure out his control problems. Hopefully, this was just a blip and he will come back strong. As you said, there's no one on the roster that could replace him. Elias could have traded for a veteran closer at the deadline, but didn't.

Now Cano, that's another story. He has been bad since the beginning of July. There's definitely something wrong there. I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved out of the setup role. I think it's overdue.

[EddeeEddee]

4 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

It amazes me how people discount the opponent they face and expect the pitchers to never give up any hits or runs. We were playing the Astros. Defending world champs and a good team.

Oh I expect the bullpen to give up some hits and runs.  But it felt like the Astros owned the bullpen in all 3 games and nearly beat us today too.  And it wasn't just the Astros.  The starting pitching on the other hand has been surprisingly good despite Flaherty's not so great game yesterday.

[spleen1015]

Maybe the Astros are just good.

At least their top 4-5. Bautista faced them both times. What happens if he steps in facing 7-8-9?

[Uli2001]

10 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

Wait a second. So Bautista doesn't give up a run for like a month and a half and two poor outings means he should be replaced? And/or Elias should have had the foresight to have a veteran replacement in the wings?

I said, in the event that Elias would have gotten a proven closer at the deadline. It was clearly a hypothetical.

[EdwinRip]

I just read a recent fangraphs article where Bautista was part of the conversation for AL CY young.  Not likely at all to receive the award, but the only reliever that was considered.

[bpilktree67]

6 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

When you say they gave up 1 earned run, are you including the inherited runners that scored while they pitched that are not counted against their ERAs?

They gave up 4 inherited runs to score in those 8 games.  3 of them on the game Fuji came in with bases loaded and hit two straight then the error allowed 3rd run.  They also gave up 1 vs Yankees with man on 2nd no outs and Baumann came in and  got ground out to 2nd and sac fly.  

[Gurgi]

31 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

I am on the boat that Elias messed up for not getting a veteran closer. But at the time, Bautista was still going strong. In hindsight, I think a "regression to the average" was to be expected for both Bautista and Cano. They are still young and unproven quantities. A team who has aspirations to go deep in the playoffs needs a proven closer. Bautista would have been able to slide down to setup, and Cano to the seventh inning, where both might be more effective.

Arent they both 28?  They aint young.  Not in baseball years.

[dystopia]

I can give Bautista a pass since he's been lights out all year until this series. The rest are very suspect. 

[EddeeEddee]

Just want to point out that this thread is not primarily about Bautista.  I know the Astros are a good team and are going to rough up any pitcher from time to time. 

But I do think a good bullpen shouldn't just beat weak teams like the Mets.  Now that the deadline is passed, I'm hoping somehow further improvements could be made, especially if this becomes more of a slippery slope.

[Sports Guy]

Bautista is fine.  FFS

[Tbone83]

I feel like if they started the year with Fuji they would have had more time and leeway as far as "fixing" him and maximizing his potential. But now it's almost mid-August and they are in a tight division race with the Rays. Can't really afford the growing pains involved in "fixing" him. I can't imagine him on the postseason roster.

I can't really picture Wells/Tate/Means/Givens/Hall coming in a being lights out, but hopefully a couple of them can at least be serviceable.

[Gurgi]

30 minutes ago, AdamK said:

FWIW

re: Givens - In a Roch post yesterday:

re: Tate - from 8/3

re: John Means... he is starting tonight for Baysox.

Thanks for reminding me about Means.   This is going to be must see tv on Milb tonight.