Ohtani Needs Second Tommy John

[Morgan423]

7 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

There was always this possibility in the back of any logical person's mind with how much strain and use Ohtani's body was going through by doing what he's been doing. There's a reason why 2 way players are virtually unheard of this day in age. He was one that broke the mold, but unfortunately, it seems that the wear has caught up to him.

It's sad to see.

But selfishly for the Orioles, it also helps out our early September schedule. The Angels are a much different team without their 2 MVP caliber superstars.

It also highlights the folly (IMO) of building a team around two guys who collectively average 20 WAR a season, but you filled most of the rest of the roster in with league-average and slightly-better-than-league-average guys.

If the superstars stay healthy, it can work.  But if one (or both) go down for any extended period of time, then you're sunk. 

[brucewayne]

3 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

It also highlights the folly (IMO) of building a team around two guys who collectively average 20 WAR a season, but you filled most of the rest of the roster in with league-average and slightly-better-than-league-average guys.

If the superstars stay healthy, it can work.  But if one (or both) go down for any extended period of time, then you're sunk. 

They also failed to consider that the most important position by far is catcher. Seems strange to build your team entirely around a guy who stands in the outfield or a guy who DH and pitches once every 6 games. What about the guy who catches every pitch? Makes no sense. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by brucewayne

[dystopia]

2 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

It also highlights the folly (IMO) of building a team around two guys who collectively average 20 WAR a season, but you filled most of the rest of the roster in with league-average and slightly-better-than-league-average guys.

If the superstars stay healthy, it can work.  But if one (or both) go down for any extended period of time, then you're sunk. 

Angels problem is they do not have any pitching. Full stop. 

[Morgan423]

2 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Angels problem is they do not have any pitching. Full stop. 

This has been a recurring issue for them for several seasons. 

[now]

37 minutes ago, brucewayne said:

They also failed to consider that the most important position by far is catcher. Seems strange to build your team entirely around a guy who stands in the outfield or a guy who DH and pitches once every 6 games. What about the guy who catches every pitch? Makes no sense. 

... only in 2/3 of the games, though.

[now]

Sucks for Ohtani and the game, for sure.

And for the Angels, who declined to act on the memo, "Sell high!"

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

I know it’s controversial but I have heard about people fixing significant injuries with stem cells. Maybe he can do that and become full time right fielder. Pitching days may be over.

That other guy pretty much stopped pitching and played right when he got traded to Yankees .. it worked out lol

Although he actually was willing to do both but wanted more money and was refused. So he pitched only 5 times from 1920 on with last time being in 1933 after a 3 year hiatus he pitched one last game, complete game win,  at Braves Field (not Fenway) against Red Sox .. Oct 1, 1933

 

“By 1933, his next to last season in Yankees pinstripes, The Babe was winding down his unparalleled career. He was 38 years old, hadn’t made a mound appearance since the season finale three years earlier and hadn’t pitched regularly since 1919, his final season with the Red Sox.

Ruth hurled a complete-game victory over a depleted Red Sox squad on September 28, 1930, ending a nine-year hiatus from the mound. The Yankees were a distant third to Connie Mack’s powerful Philadelphia Athletics, who were in the process of claiming the second of three straight American League pennants. The Yankees-Red Sox series at season’s end was so insignificant that New York’s rookie manager, Bob Shawkey, excused his three top pitchers, Red Ruffing, Herb Pennock, and George Pipgras, and starting catcher Bill Dickey from making the trip.

Ruth had hurled exhibition games through the years but those occasional offseason outings hardly prepared him to pitch again in the majors. Ruth, being the incredible player that he was, climbed the hill at Braves Field. No longer the lean lefty who starred for the Red Sox in the Teens, the portly Ruth still succeeded in turning back the clock to his years as a dominant hurler.

In his only appearance as a Yankees pitcher outside of New York, The Babe blanked Boston for the first five innings in an eventual 9-3 win. He yielded 11 hits, struck out three — Ruth was never a strikeout pitcher, even in his prime — and started two double plays by twice snaring what the New York Times described as a “smash hot off the bat.”2

The Brooklyn Daily Eagle wrote that Ruth displayed “both speed and puzzling curves.”

 

https://sabr.org/gamesproj/game/october-1-1933-lefty-ruth-all-right-in-final-mound-appearance/#:~:text=By 1933%2C his next to,season with the Red Sox.

 

 

 

 

[Gurgi]

13 minutes ago, now said:

Sucks for Ohtani and the game, for sure.

And for the Angels, who declined to act on the memo, "Sell high!"

Imagine how glorious the Angels would feel if they raped some teams farm system then the next month Ohtani went down.   

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't usually root for other players or teams who aren't Orioles. But Ohtani was so unique and spectacular I find myself following him and rooting for him to do amazing things. Probably didn't hurt that he plays across the country and doesn't usually have any impact on the Orioles one way or the other. So this news kind of sucks. I was hoping for him to throw about 200 innings of a 2.75 and hit 57 homers.

[Just Regular]

7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Ruth hurled a complete-game victory over a depleted Red Sox squad on September 28, 1930, ending a nine-year hiatus from the mound. The Yankees were a distant third to Connie Mack’s powerful Philadelphia Athletics, who were in the process of claiming the second of three straight American League pennants.

Was the early 30's another of the Connie Mack teardowns?

I hadn't really connected dots (and this is applicable to Maryland baseball history, where we remember Babe more than Lefty Grove), but its interesting to note in the soon aftermath of the '27 Yankees, the teams of Lefty Grove 3.6.1900 handled the teams of Babe Ruth 2.6.1895.

Ruth had a .900 OPS against Grove in ~150 PA.

[brucewayne]

27 minutes ago, now said:

... only in 2/3 of the games, though.

But every game in the postseason. How many postseason wins and hits does Mike Trout have. As great as he is, he ultimately still is, just an outfielder. 

[webbrick2010]

Sad thing he did his best for a dysfunctional organization that couldn't even make the playoffs

[Surhoffan17]

18 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Was the early 30's another of the Connie Mack teardowns?

I hadn't really connected dots (and this is applicable to Maryland baseball history, where we remember Babe more than Lefty Grove), but its interesting to note in the soon aftermath of the '27 Yankees, the teams of Lefty Grove 3.6.1900 handled the teams of Babe Ruth 2.6.1895.

Ruth had a .900 OPS against Grove in ~150 PA.

The Athletics made it to three WS appearances winning the first two and losing the third one. It was a tremendous team with Grove, Foxx, Al Simmons, and Mickey Cochrane. 1931 was the last of those appearances but Foxx won back-to-back MVPs in 32 and 33, so maybe mid-30's? 

[sportsfan8703]

I wonder if the Angels just DFA Giolito. Any interest?

[accinfo]

46 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Imagine how glorious the Angels would feel if they raped some teams farm system then the next month Ohtani went down.   

I suspect they asked around before they decided they were going to try to go for it.   I just don’t think there are too many GM’s out there willing to give up more than one big prospect for even a player with Ohtani’s skills when he is healthy for a rental.  I heard people talk about Holliday, Grod and more for him.  There is no way.  I can see one if that somehow you know you would win a World Series but there is realistically no way of knowing that.  With all the layers of playoffs it is too risky for one shot.  Give me the Atlanta Braves of the 1990’s.  Yes they only won 1 World Series but they were good every year.