Cease vs everyone else

[sportsfan8703]

12 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm not saying he never trades anybody, just that he still has time to clear backlog, and he's not under any real pressure to try and appease Chicago. 

Trading Westburg in a Cease deal isn't appeasing Chicago.  It's getting a deal done.  Pitching costs alot.  In terms of Money or Prospects.  WAR Pitching is more expensive than Position Player WAR.  We've seen that in FA in terms of dollars and even in the draft. 

We've had fun with the CWS board, but that's just the internet.  Getz isn't some evil villain.  The CWS fans aren't going to steal our lunch money.  We're getting the SP we need.  They're getting the return they need.  Westburg, and one of Cowser/Kjerstad.

We start the year out with an IF of,

SS - Gunnar

2B - Holliday(we're bold and also go for the ROY)

3B - Urias (Mayo 6/15)

Reserve IFs Mateo and Ortiz

Then for the 2025 OF we have,

One of Cowser/Kjerstad, Hilliard, EBJ, Beavers, Horvath, Wagner, Fabian, and possibly Mullins/Hays.  

Edited January 10 by sportsfan8703

[Malike]

7 hours ago, waroriole said:

It’s very odd how anyone would think Mayo or Basallo were available for Cease. They should’ve traded him after 2022. They didn’t and so they don’t get the same price for him a mediocre year later. 

They certainly aren't getting either for Cease. The issue over there is they keep insisting that people were saying Ortiz would headline a deal and it was always Cowser who is a top 20 prospect or Kjerstad who is just below him *plus* Ortiz. They are just too stupid to realize that and keep saying Ortiz is the headliner. They deserve a trade with the Yankees for some overrated prospects that bust, it's their destiny.

[Sports Guy]

The WS fans are really holding out hope they get Mayo. I would be completely shocked by that. I say no chance. Why wouldn’t have Elias already offered that?

He isn’t the type of GM that’s going to get all antsy and desperate and offer up more than he wants to in trade.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Trading Westburg in a Cease deal isn't appeasing Chicago.  It's getting a deal done.  Pitching costs alot.  In terms of Money or Prospects.  WAR Pitching has more value than Position Player WAR.  We've seen that in FA in terms of dollars and even in the draft. 

We've had fun with the CWS board, but that's just the internet.  Getz isn't some evil villain.  The CWS fans aren't going to steal our lunch money.  We're getting the SP we need.  They're getting the return they need.  Westburg, and one of Cowser/Kjerstad.

We start the year out with an IF of,

SS - Gunnar

2B - Holliday(we're bold and also go for the ROY)

3B - Urias (Mayo 6/15)

Reserve IFs Mateo and Ortiz

Then for the 2025 OF we have,

One of Cowser/Kjerstad, Hilliard, EBJ, Beavers, Horvath, Wagner, Fabian, and possibly Mullins/Hays.  

Just because you can afford to pay $1,000 for a meal doesn't mean the meal is worth $1,000. 

Likewise, we can definitely afford to give up Cowser/Kjerstad and Westburg for Cease, but that doesn't mean that we should.

 

 

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

The WS fans are really holding out hope they get Mayo. I would be completely shocked by that. I say no chance. Why wouldn’t have Elias already offered that?

He isn’t the type of GM that’s going to get all antsy and desperate and offer up more than he wants to in trade.

Wouldn't you want Mayo?  Remember the packages people thought we'd get for Bedard?  Names like Votto, Hamilton, and Cueto from the Reds.  Names like Kershaw, and Kemp from the Dodgers.  

It's an incredible win for this org that Westburg and Cowser both had best case milb development scenarios.  Now it's time to sell.  Believe it or not, we have better than Westburg in Holliday and Mayo.  Cowser/Kjerstad is just the LH OF they need in their rebuild.  

[sportsfan8703]

4 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Just because you can afford to pay $1,000 for a meal doesn't mean the meal is worth $1,000. 

Likewise, we can definitely afford to give up Cowser/Kjerstad and Westburg for Cease, but that doesn't mean that we should.

 

 

If that meal is starting pitching then it's probably going to cost $1.200.

With how much SP costs nowadays, there's at least a 20% tax on SP WAR versus Position Player WAR.  It just is what it is.  It's not a video game.  

Edited January 10 by sportsfan8703

[ChicagoTerp]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The WS fans are really holding out hope they get Mayo. I would be completely shocked by that. I say no chance. Why wouldn’t have Elias already offered that?

He isn’t the type of GM that’s going to get all antsy and desperate and offer up more than he wants to in trade.

Would be shocked if they got Mayo or Basallo, but I don't have the reigns. Unlike the CWS fans who apparently control their team's decisions.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If that meal is starting pitching then it's probably going to cost $1.200.

With how much SP costs nowadays, there's at least a 20% tax on SP WAR versus Position Player WAR.  It just is what it is.  It's not a video game.  

Even factoring that into the equation, Cease is not worth Westburg and 1 of Kjerstad/Cowser. 

If Westburg isn't a good enough headliner for them, they can pound sand.

[ThisIsBirdland]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If that meal is starting pitching then it's probably going to cost $1.200.

With how much SP costs nowadays, there's at least a 20% tax on SP WAR versus Position Player WAR.  It just is what it is.  It's not a video game.  

You may well be right, and you're always in the right to express an opinion on a message board, but man do you express some strong opinions. I'll gladly tip my cap if I'm wrong, but my only request is you do the same if:

• Cease is traded for less than Westburg + Cowser/Kjerstad
• Sam Hilliard is not the backup CF out of Spring Training
• The O's don't sign Naoyuki Uwasawa

Feel like I've seen these takes expressed a lot recently.

[Guest]

Personally I would rather give up more for a better pitcher (like, Luzardo) than give up 2/3 of it in a deal for Cease where we feel ripped off

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Even factoring that into the equation, Cease is not worth Westburg and 1 of Kjerstad/Cowser. 

If Westburg isn't a good enough headliner for them, they can pound sand.

They can pound sand and we can deal with what happens with Wells running out of gas in July again.  All while using a bullpen, that pitches probably the most IP in the AL, without Bautista propping up alot of their ERAs by stranding runners.  I'm looking at you Cano.  

We also have a chance to be the clear cut best team in the AL.  Wells as a reliever for 2024 would probably give us the same value back that a Stephenson, Neris, or Hicks would.  

[Too Tall]

I don't follow this thread anymore because I think it's informative. I follow it because I think it is just plain funny and wonder how long it can go on rehashing the same over and over. Someone said 300 pages? Elias, please do something - anything to change the narrative.  Personally, I don't want Cease - particularly now cause I'm sick of the name.  

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

You may well be right, and you're always in the right to express an opinion on a message board, but man do you express some strong opinions. I'll gladly tip my cap if I'm wrong, but my only request is you do the same if:

• Cease is traded for less than Westburg + Cowser/Kjerstad
• Sam Hilliard is not the backup CF out of Spring Training
• The O's don't sign Naoyuki Uwasawa

Feel like I've seen these takes expressed a lot recently.

100% I respect everyone's opinions and laugh at myself when I'm wrong.  See Jorge Lopez 98 mph sinker.  

I don't want us to sign Uwasawa, I just think the original report wasn't baseless.  There's some interest there.  We'll find out tomorrow around this time because of his deadline.  I'd rather us trade for Cease.  I'd be disappointed if we signed Uwasawa unless we can option him to the minors.  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

They can pound sand and we can deal with what happens with Wells running out of gas in July again.  All while using a bullpen, that pitches probably the most IP in the AL, without Bautista propping up alot of their ERAs by stranding runners.  I'm looking at you Cano.  

We also have a chance to be the clear cut best team in the AL.  Wells as a reliever for 2024 would probably give us the same value back that a Stephenson, Neris, or Hicks would.  

Or we could just add a different SP that doesn't require a crazy overpay.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

26 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The WS fans are really holding out hope they get Mayo. I would be completely shocked by that. I say no chance. Why wouldn’t have Elias already offered that?

He isn’t the type of GM that’s going to get all antsy and desperate and offer up more than he wants to in trade.

Wish in one hand, s*** in the other, and see which one fills up first