Cease vs everyone else

[Safelykept]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Assuming Elias has actually made an offer for Cease here’s my guess and why.

Norby, Beavers, Povich, Baumann

1. A low ball offer but along the lines of the Flaherty deal, quantity but with a better grade of prospects.

2. A WS “insider” said that Getz wanted Norby.  Our Husker fan mentioned Povich was available even though he mentioned a different team.

3. Beavers is behind Cowser, Kjerstad, and maybe even Mayo for COF.

4. Baumann is out of options, in danger of not making our bullpen, but easily makes the WS, also cheap with tons of service time.  Can even try starting him again.

White Sox holding out for a headliner like Basallo, Mayo, or Kjerstad.  Rumors are that big 3, + Kjerstad/Cowser are not on the table.

From an Oriole fan perspective, anyone, I think, would do this deal in a NY minute.  Getz can’t do it without one big prospect name coming back.   No other team seems willing to step up (Red Sox with Mayer/Anthony), (Reds with Marte), (Yankees with Jones).   Does Getz cave in for the best deal out there?   Does Elias substitute Kjerstad for Beavers (and possibly Ortiz for Norby) to make it happen?    
 

 

Yeah Definitely a low ball offer, lot of possibilities to upgrade the offer, Here we go with the Baumann Love again, If his next year is like his last 3 he,ll hit   the waiver wire and CWS pick him up for free< As of now he has no trade value

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

The guy hit a measley 3 homeruns last season. His stats don't look great. No thanks. 

These White Sox fans at https://www.soxtalk.com/forums/forum/2-pale-hose-talk/  can do a much better job about which of our players you should ask for.

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I would like to see more of that.   Those were deadline deals though.   We are less likely to be trading veterans at the deadline, hopefully.    The Dodgers just traded a top prospect, who was blocked, for an A ball pitcher.   That kind of thing works for me too.

If the O's don't get Cease and go for someone like Paxton or Ryu, I can see Urias, O'Hearn, Norby or Stowers traded for A ball pitchers.

[SoxFan3344]

53 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

If I’m Chris Getz I’m holding for what I want, Heston Kjerstad. If he’s not on the table I’m moving on and holding Cease til the deadline, when more teams will know if they’re competing or not. I understand the risk of injury but I’m in no hurry to get rid of my best starting pitcher when I have him under control for the next two full seasons. You can call it stubbornness if you want but Mike Elias called me first. 

Vaughn isn't positionless, starting 1B. But if it were up to me would have been traded 3 years ago for a frontline starter. He doesn’t hit for enough power IMO.

Eloy’s bat is way too streaky for the money he’s slated to make now, it’s his contract year, if he’s not gone by the deadline, he’s playing for another team next season. Surprisingly though he was competent in LF last season. 

They have Gavin Sheets, who is actually positionless, and neither him nor Oscar Colas can hit. 

There are only two bats in the lineup I trust to get a job done, it’s Robert and surprisingly Benintendi who I think is gonna have a bounce back year. 
 

With that being said I’d assume you guys would prefer to keep Kjerstad over Cowser because of his bat, that’s not to say Cowser won’t eventually be a good hitter, he very well may but the Sox while Robert is under control cannot afford to bet on Cowser figuring it out. Also the mental aspect of overcoming a potentially serious heart condition to bounce back and perform shows his mental toughness and drive. Give me that guy 

[Safelykept]

14 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Exactly either a Troll or a 6 year old from Chicago either way keep you're responses short

[Safelykept]

14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Are they both key parts of the Orioles? I'm not excited for a rebuild. You go to a ballgame today and you pay 40 dollars for parking, 20 dollars for a hot dog and a drink, 15 dollars for a beer (white Sox beer price), and the ticket prices. For a family of 4 this ends up being a $300 outing. I don't want to do a rebuild. I want to see good major league players if I'm spending my hard earned cash. 

What proven players could the Orioles trade for Cease?

No their just a couple of spare parts

[emmett16]

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I would like to see more of that.   Those were deadline deals though.   We are less likely to be trading veterans at the deadline, hopefully.    The Dodgers just traded a top prospect, who was blocked, for an A ball pitcher.   That kind of thing works for me too.

I’m actually surprised we haven’t seen more of that. 

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, SoxFan3344 said:

If I’m Chris Getz I’m holding for what I want, Heston Kjerstad. If he’s not on the table I’m moving on and holding Cease til the deadline, when more teams will know if they’re competing or not. I understand the risk of injury but I’m in no hurry to get rid of my best starting pitcher when I have him under control for the next two full seasons. You can call it stubbornness if you want but Mike Elias called me first. 

Dude had a 97 era+ & a 4.0 BB/9 last year with all his statcast #s down.  He’s a 113 era+ 4.0 BB9 career pitcher.  He had one good year.  The ONLY thing attractive about him is his 8MM salary for a slightly above league avg pitcher.   He’s an innings eater type that has been 13% better than the average MLB pitcher over his career.  He isn’t going to fetch premium prospects.  I honestly don’t think Mike Elias values him very highly.  Orioles had a 2.9 BB9 and have made it a focus to be in the zone since the new regime took over.  He pitches out of the zone more last year than previous two years and that’s because he just doesn’t have the stuff he used to.  

  Had Elias not reached out to Getz it would be GM malpractice.  The fact that they are in discussions mean absolutely nothing.  

[deward]

16 hours ago, emmett16 said:

What about Mayos in the 4th, Hernaiz’ in the 5th, and Ortiz’ in the 4th? Dumb luck? 

At least when it comes to Mayo, a little? He wouldn't have been there if the 2020 high school season hadn't been canceled. And neither of the other two are anywhere near the level of Adley, Gunnar, or Holliday, which is my point. 

[wildbillhiccup]

27 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

Vaughn isn't positionless, starting 1B. But if it were up to me would have been traded 3 years ago for a frontline starter. He doesn’t hit for enough power IMO.

Eloy’s bat is way too streaky for the money he’s slated to make now, it’s his contract year, if he’s not gone by the deadline, he’s playing for another team next season. Surprisingly though he was competent in LF last season. 

They have Gavin Sheets, who is actually positionless, and neither him nor Oscar Colas can hit. 

There are only two bats in the lineup I trust to get a job done, it’s Robert and surprisingly Benintendi who I think is gonna have a bounce back year. 
 

With that being said I’d assume you guys would prefer to keep Kjerstad over Cowser because of his bat, that’s not to say Cowser won’t eventually be a good hitter, he very well may but the Sox while Robert is under control cannot afford to bet on Cowser figuring it out. Also the mental aspect of overcoming a potentially serious heart condition to bounce back and perform shows his mental toughness and drive. Give me that guy 

Have you looked at Andrew Vaughn's dWAR? He was an atrocious outfielder and now he's upgraded to being just a bad first baseman so yeah he really should just be a DH. And you might not like Colas, but can the White Sox really afford to give up on him at age 25? 

And my question wasn't really about who / what we would prefer to give up, it was about why Getz wouldn't prefer a younger better defender in Cowser over Kjerstad?  They both posted very similar offensive numbers at AAA last season so it just seems like a misconstruction to characterize one as being significantly better than the other. 

The White Sox already traded away another bad defender in Burger last season and there have been rumblings that they're looking to do the same with Jimenez. So it would seem like they recognize that having a team full of DHs / poor defensive players isn't exactly the best approach to winning baseball games. And I would think their fans would would think the same. 

[wildbillhiccup]

36 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I’m actually surprised we haven’t seen more of that. 

Why? We haven't really been in a position yet to see more of it (i.e., trading older prospects for younger prospects). This is probably the first off season where you could make a case for it maybe making sense. 

[emmett16]

54 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Are they both key parts of the Orioles? I'm not excited for a rebuild. You go to a ballgame today and you pay 40 dollars for parking, 20 dollars for a hot dog and a drink, 15 dollars for a beer (white Sox beer price), and the ticket prices. For a family of 4 this ends up being a $300 outing. I don't want to do a rebuild. I want to see good major league players if I'm spending my hard earned cash. 

What proven players could the Orioles trade for Cease?

That does sound like a waste.  I’d recommend checking out wrigleyville. Incredible fan base with one of sports most historic rivalry’s.  And everyone is super friendly.  Can’t go wrong.   Fantastic product night in night out.  

[emmett16]

9 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Why? We haven't really been in a position yet to see more of it (i.e., trading older prospects for younger prospects). This is probably the first off season where you could make a case for it maybe making sense. 

I thought they’d do it  with Stowers last year.  Stowers, Ortiz, & Norby fit the bill this year.  
 

 

Edited January 14 by emmett16

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

While I think Gibson ended up doing the job of a 1 year, $10 million starter last year, I do not think he's a guy they should have resigned. 

They needed to upgrade that and a pitcher like Cease does upgrade the rotation. While I don't necessarily think Cease is an absolute stud that you give up the farm for (seem that's what the white sox want), he certainly is a better overall pitcher than Gibson.

Now, if the Orioles fail to land him or another starter at that level, would Gibson had made some sense at $13 million a year, perhaps, but he's not the guy you land early in the offseason.

The Orioles have some decent backup options in case they don't land a quality top 1-3 starter, but I think they should be past signing mediocrity to fill out there rotation. 

So you’d agree that Ryu or Paxton would be a step backwards? 

[ChicagoTerp]

2 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

That does sound like a waste.  I’d recommend checking out wrigleyville. Incredible fan base with one of sports most historic rivalry’s.  And everyone is super friendly.  Can’t go wrong.   Fantastic product night in night out.  

Great point. As someone who lived in Chicago for several years, and even went to grad school on the south side, Wrigley is where it's at.