Hall vs one year deals

[maybenxtyr]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

I like the Ryu idea more if we end up trading someone from our ML rotation like Kremer, for example. Is he coming off TJS? We always seem to rough him up (or Mountcastle does anyway), so I tend to think he's worse than his actual numbers. But he's decent. 

I went back to 2021 because I thought the same thing about him vs Baltimore...I was wrong. He pitched ok in his last full season against them, especially considering he started 6 games vs Baltimore that season. 

 

He's certainly not a flashy signing, and I don't know how good it would be having 2 pitchers in the same rotation coming off of TJ surgery and rehab.

[TommyPickles]

Ryu kind of reminds me of an older John Means. And really, the kind of career I hope Means has (over 20 WAR).

Lefty, doesn't throw hard, throws his change up a lot, doesn't walk a lot of guys. 

They have very similar career BB% and K%.

Means: 20.6% K, 5.0% BB

Ryu: 21.6% K, 5.4% BB

Edited December 13, 2023 by TommyPickles

[orioles22]

Hall didn't show he could be a good starter for Norfolk. I'd rather use him in the bullpen.

We have all kinds of excess talent in the infield and outfield. It's time for Elias to find a good, young starter.

[Jim'sKid26]

Square peg in a round hole?

Hall belongs in the bullpen where he has shown he can succeed. He is very valuable there and gives the team some flexibility. 

I'm not sure I agree that he has that much upside as a SP.  

[btdart20]

10 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Square peg in a round hole?

Hall belongs in the bullpen where he has shown he can succeed. He is very valuable there and gives the team some flexibility. 

I'm not sure I agree that he has that much upside as a SP.  

Everyone so far agrees that he's very valuable in the bullpen.  How are you defining flexibility here?

I've seen comps to Freddy Peralta and Blake Snell to DL Hall.  All hard throwers, plus stuff, multiple pitches, control issues, '5 and dive' types.  The Peralta/Snell-esque upside is definitely there.  The chances of tapping into it is another story...  

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Any 1 year deal SP is likely not going to be much better than Irvin, so I generally think don’t bother and find a 5th starter between Hall, Wells and Irvin (my preference in that order). 

More depth is nice and maybe that gives them more flexibility to rely on Wells/Hall in the bullpen, but they shouldn’t stand in the way of Hall getting plugged into the rotation if he looks like he warrants being a starter in Spring Training. 

Definitely think Wells or Irvin ends up the number 5 if Elias is unable to land a a good starter.

[Orange]

Until reading this I assumed that the de facto #5 SP at the moment is Tyler Wells. Is there really that much support for Irvin and Hall? Sure, Wells ran out of gas last year but he was darn good in the first half.

Also, Elias is going to trade some solid pieces for a very good SP. It just won't happen until late January, so while we wait we're going to have a lot of threads like this one.

[sportsfan8703]

Would Giolito take a 1 year deal with us?  

[clapdiddy]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Would Giolito take a 1 year deal with us?  

Don't know, but I would prefer him to most other 1-year guys we've talked about here.

[btdart20]

8 minutes ago, Orange said:

Until reading this I assumed that the de facto #5 SP at the moment is Tyler Wells. Is there really that much support for Irvin and Hall? Sure, Wells ran out of gas last year but he was darn good in the first half.

Also, Elias is going to trade some solid pieces for a very good SP. It just won't happen until late January, so while we wait we're going to have a lot of threads like this one.

I see Bradish and Grayson as clear TOR types.  And I see a bunch of #3-5 types in Kremer, Means, Irvin, and Wells.  Those are solid Lyles/Gibson-esque marathon runners.  Not sprinters.

I'd love to see a guy who can raise the bar after Bradish/Grayson as we enter the sprint at the end of the season.

The only selling point for Hall is that he could be a tourney #2-type.  Tough to count on him now unless there's a long-term hope in his arm still.  And it sounds like Elias is still a believer.  How to integrate rookies will (likely) be a perennial thing will be complicated every off-season.

[emmett16]

Hall is the 2024 wildcard.  He has the tools to be the best SP on the team.  If he breaks out the team will be in a fantastic position.  

[oriole]

You’ve all become complacent and over confident in this teams “prospects”. There’s no way (in a reasonable world) that Elias doesn’t add a starter, preferably a mid-rotation guy. It’d be an injustice, not just to Baltimore fans, but to baseball overall that the reigning divisional champions with so much room in the payroll and so many redundant prospects would just sit on their hands and throw out obvious bullpen arms as their 5th piece and call it a day. The Yankees just got Soto, Blue Jays will undoubtedly improve significantly, same with the Red Sox. TB is always good somehow…I don’t want to pretend that I’m okay with in house options because I’m so tired of being disappointed by this teams ownership and risk averse front office. This thread is ridiculous, not necessarily the premise, but the amount of posts I’m reading that seem like you’ve already gotten comfortable with the idea that a reliever on the brink of being washed up is the only move this offseason. 
 

To answer the question, hell no. I would not be okay with going into the season with Hall, Wells, Irvin or whoever else is already on the roster. Go out and make something happen. Otherwise this offseason is a missed opportunity. 
 

 

[RZNJ]

I would rather see Hall gain some traction as a reliever.  We can always try the starter thing next year when Means possibly leaves.   I just think I’d like to see him gain confidence and hopefully consistent command as a reliever first.   

As for the 5th starter, if Wells is healthy, he’s certainly shown he can be good for 3 months.  After that, figure it out.  Maybe McDermott, Povich, or Johnson is ready.
 

 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, oriole said:

You’ve all become complacent and over confident in this teams “prospects”. There’s no way (in a reasonable world) that Elias doesn’t add a starter, preferably a mid-rotation guy. It’d be an injustice, not just to Baltimore fans, but to baseball overall that the reigning divisional champions with so much room in the payroll and so many redundant prospects would just sit on their hands and throw out obvious bullpen arms as their 5th piece and call it a day. The Yankees just got Soto, Blue Jays will undoubtedly improve significantly, same with the Red Sox. TB is always good somehow…I don’t want to pretend that I’m okay with in house options because I’m so tired of being disappointed by this teams ownership and risk averse front office. This thread is ridiculous, not necessarily the premise, but the amount of posts I’m reading that seem like you’ve already gotten comfortable with the idea that a reliever on the brink of being washed up is the only move this offseason. 
 

To answer the question, hell no. I would not be okay with going into the season with Hall, Wells, Irvin or whoever else is already on the roster. Go out and make something happen. Otherwise this offseason is a missed opportunity. 
 

 

I agree they 100% need to make a trade (I started a thread about it, haha), but I'm not fully convinced that trade is for a notable #1-3 SP. 

Regarding the replies on this thread, I think it's clear that the board overall is a bit pessimistic post-Winter Meetings, post-lease fakeout #2, post-Rubenstein fakeout, post-Ohtani, and post-other teams making moves. 

So we're imagining a scenario where the O's don't find a trade for a top-mid SP and are forced to supplement the rotation with a Gibson-type, and is that any better than Hall/Wells/Irvin. 

[Jim'sKid26]

1 hour ago, btdart20 said:

Everyone so far agrees that he's very valuable in the bullpen.  How are you defining flexibility here?

I've seen comps to Freddy Peralta and Blake Snell to DL Hall.  All hard throwers, plus stuff, multiple pitches, control issues, '5 and dive' types.  The Peralta/Snell-esque upside is definitely there.  The chances of tapping into it is another story...  

I think he can pitch multiple innings out of the BP. Thus a bit more flexible.

We disagree on the comps. Is see Hall as a "three and flee" moreso than a "5 and dive" guy. I would use Josh Hader as a comp. At least in terms of upside.