Jackson Holliday 2024

[interloper]

Up to an even .200 and positive rWAR at 0.1. 

Can't wait until he's a legit leadoff guy. 

[terpoh]

14 hours ago, banks703 said:

And what I have always said as it relates to the org and their development of the players is that they will do everything possible to develop them where and how they are the most valuable .. which I argue .. includes considering them as trade pieces.  Conventional thinking is you don't take a kid 1:1 if in the back of your mind you are planning to deal him but they've shown that their strategy is to stockpile position players, notably middle infield talent, and we'd have to believe that they realize that there are only two middle infield positions on the field. So taking a bunch of middle infielders in the draft would likely mean that some of them would end up elsewhere... and that's what they did.

As some of us have suggested, yeah, they could throw the kid out there at SS and he's probably not going to lose you many games because of it but he's never going to be a good (or plus.. however we want to define it) defender as a SS and probably not ever the best defensive option on a major league roster unless Ryan Mountcastle is the only other SS option.

There is a psyche component to all of us and confidence is especially important to athletes. If the kid thinks he's a SS and they've given him every opportunity to play himself off of the position, why would the org say anything short of supporting/promoting him there, when it's a position that provides the most value for them and the player? All to say, I know ME mentions him as a SS but he also stated that Joey Ortiz was a ML SS that they felt was a big part of their future. Some have suggested that Gunnar's developing into a superstar threw a wrench in their plans and I tend to agree with that but again, they've shown that they will stockpile middle infield talent and will hold onto (hoard even) said middle infield talent. So, when ME talks about anyone at X position, all that I hear is GM speak. 

Seems to me like they stockpiled MI talent then traded from that surplus to try to upgrade the MLB team, not hoard them. Over the past 5 years we've drafted and accumulated Gunnar, Ortiz, Hernaiz, Westburg, Holliday, Norby for MI positions. Pretty absurd that all 6 guys have hit as MLB players. But we traded 3 out of the 6 to bring in other players. Maybe you could argue that we held them longer than you wouldve liked, but I dont think hoarded is the right word. 

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Up to an even .200 and positive rWAR at 0.1. 

Can't wait until he's a legit leadoff guy. 

Looking like September. 

[banks703]

1 hour ago, terpoh said:

Seems to me like they stockpiled MI talent then traded from that surplus to try to upgrade the MLB team, not hoard them. Over the past 5 years we've drafted and accumulated Gunnar, Ortiz, Hernaiz, Westburg, Holliday, Norby for MI positions. Pretty absurd that all 6 guys have hit as MLB players. But we traded 3 out of the 6 to bring in other players. Maybe you could argue that we held them longer than you wouldve liked, but I dont think hoarded is the right word. 

I’m comfortable with the using the word hoarding to describe what they did with said MI talent. Both Joey and Norby were moved at least a year later than their trade value peaked. They were promoting JH at a rate that, for their tenure (and frankly most prospects ever but especially how they treat prospects) that it was clear neither player had a role long term. Plus Sig is on record as saying that he struggles to let go of prospects.

Obviously the trade that included Joey has worked out for them (accepting last night’s clunker by Burnes is just that every pitcher gets lit up every now and again). 

[terpoh]

15 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I’m comfortable with the using the word hoarding to describe what they did with said MI talent. Both Joey and Norby were moved at least a year later than their trade value peaked. They were promoting JH at a rate that, for their tenure (and frankly most prospects ever but especially how they treat prospects) that it was clear neither player had a role long term. Plus Sig is on record as saying that he struggles to let go of prospects.

Obviously the trade that included Joey has worked out for them (accepting last night’s clunker by Burnes is just that every pitcher gets lit up every now and again). 

I can see the argument that they held onto Ortiz too long, but I think they were still evaluating Ortiz vs Westburg. And, as you said, the eventual Ortiz trade worked out well for us anyways. Hernaiz they got rid of pretty early, the trade just hasnt been good because Irvin is Irvin. I dont know that Norby was held on to too long. He just wasnt ready, and appears still isnt as the Marlins have him in AAA. I think his value was/is a little overrated around here. I think he was maybe on one top 100 list during his time in the minors here. Not sure he was ever bringing back a top of rotation level guy back, whether we traded him in 2022 or now.

[OriolesMagic83]

Since his 2nd callup, Holliday has been a productive member of the team.  He's produced 5 HR, 14 RBI and 13 runs in only 15 games since his callup.  He's putting up a .940 OPS, all while slumping after an initial hot streak.  I think he's going to produce runs at an All Star/MVP pace going forward.  Holliday was scoring close to a run a game over his minor league career.  I doubt he will continue to show the same degree of power he has since he was called up, but he should start walking more once he gets comfortable with the MLB variable strike zone. 

[Sports Guy]

Holliday needs at least a day off and with Valdez and Kikuchi pitching this weekend, i figure he gets at least one day and maybe the whole weekend off, unless he pinch hits.   Big swing, trying to pull, etc..

[Explosivo]

On 8/17/2024 at 4:43 PM, OriolesMagic83 said:

Since his 2nd callup, Holliday has been a productive member of the team.  He's produced 5 HR, 14 RBI and 13 runs in only 15 games since his callup.  He's putting up a .940 OPS, all while slumping after an initial hot streak.  I think he's going to produce runs at an All Star/MVP pace going forward.  Holliday was scoring close to a run a game over his minor league career.  I doubt he will continue to show the same degree of power he has since he was called up, but he should start walking more once he gets comfortable with the MLB variable strike zone. 

The main thing I worry about with Holliday now is his situational hitting and more importantly, his arm strength. You’d think he’d be adequate at second, but his arm strength is frankly not good. On close double plays, he doesn’t have enough to get the runner. That was very evident against the Mets. That’s just not acceptable, but we don’t have any other option currently.

[Hazmat]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Holliday needs at least a day off and with Valdez and Kikuchi pitching this weekend, i figure he gets at least one day and maybe the whole weekend off, unless he pinch hits.   Big swing, trying to pull, etc..

He’s only walked 4 times since he’s been back up.

[Spakman]

2 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

The main thing I worry about with Holliday now is his situational hitting and more importantly, his arm strength. You’d think he’d be adequate at second, but his arm strength is frankly not good. On close double plays, he doesn’t have enough to get the runner. That was very evident against the Mets. That’s just not acceptable, but we don’t have any other option currently.

I’m hoping it’s positioning and footwork. But he is also black hole the plate again.

[Spakman]

Just now, Hazmat said:

He’s only walked 4 times since he’s been back up.

And he’s truly trying to walk more than hit. He takes a lot of strikes.

[Explosivo]

1 minute ago, Spakman said:

I’m hoping it’s positioning and footwork. But he is also black hole the plate again.

I hope so. If he doesn’t have the arm strength to play second, say goodbye to being a backup for shortstop as well. Just strange all around.

[Moose Milligan]

Send him down again! Only way to get him going, it appears. 

[survivedc]

He has been much better at 2nd recently. Just very confident making plays. Started and finished double plays tonight with good feeds and good finishing throws. Wasn’t two weeks ago that he was kidding those same plays.

Would love to see him swing first pitch, or at least first strike. Use the Buck theory, attack early. Get going.

[LA2]

On 8/17/2024 at 10:14 PM, emmett16 said:

Looking like September. 

Holliday busting loose in September would be grand--and what a redemption of his first call-up.