Gunnar Henderson 2024

[Malike]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Will certainly keep an eye out for this moving forward.

I’m not sure that concern about his strike zone judgment is really showing up in the data, though. Per Statcast, Gunnar is top 25 in MLB in value on his “takes.” He’s got the lowest chase rate on the team, as well as the largest gulf between his chase rate (21.6%) and his zone swing rate (65.7%). With my rudimentary research skills, it’s hard to “prove” someone is great at judging the strike zone — but all of the usual markers look pretty darn good.

He probably “could/should” have struck out looking 3 times on Sunday — I don’t think 4 times is accurate, just based on reviewing the at-bat details — but I don’t think that’s been a major problem for him overall. Aside from Sunday, he’s only struck out looking 4 times all month. And a quick review of the last week’s at bats suggested that there weren’t any other PAs where he “could/should” have struck out looking but didn’t.

Gunnar’s always had a bit of a low frustration tolerance, though, so perhaps it will bear monitoring whether complaining about correct calls is becoming a thing for him.

There were 3 K's looking, well, there should have been, I didn't realize what would have been his 4th K was swinging. He obviously got a break in his first AB, he pretty obviously complained about the last two K's looking and this isn't something new, he's been called out on strikes on the outside corner that are definitely strikes and he complains about it, it's annoying.

[e16bball]

30 minutes ago, Malike said:

There were 3 K's looking, well, there should have been, I didn't realize what would have been his 4th K was swinging. He obviously got a break in his first AB, he pretty obviously complained about the last two K's looking and this isn't something new, he's been called out on strikes on the outside corner that are definitely strikes and he complains about it, it's annoying.

Okay. All of that is what I already said, except for the complaining part.

I was having a hard time telling if this was just a personal annoyance or whether you think strike zone judgment is a significant hole/flaw in his game.

Seems like it’s the former. Which is cool. Be annoyed by whatever you like (or don’t like, as the case may be).

[Malike]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Okay. All of that is what I already said, except for the complaining part.

I was having a hard time telling if this was just a personal annoyance or whether you think strike zone judgment is a significant hole/flaw in his game.

Seems like it’s the former. Which is cool. Be annoyed by whatever you like (or don’t like, as the case may be).

I mean, it's a bad look when you argue a strike 3 looking when it's clearly a strike, at least where I'm sitting. He appears to not see strikes on the outside corner well, he gets caught by them often enough to complain enough to make himself look foolish when he's shaking his head at the ump in protest. I'm sure when he goes to look at the iPad, he thinks oh, that was a strike.

[Il BuonO]

41 minutes ago, Malike said:

I mean, it's a bad look when you argue a strike 3 looking when it's clearly a strike, at least where I'm sitting. He appears to not see strikes on the outside corner well, he gets caught by them often enough to complain enough to make himself look foolish when he's shaking his head at the ump in protest. I'm sure when he goes to look at the iPad, he thinks oh, that was a strike.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. The last part after what made bold must be happening, but then why isn't he thinking "they're pitching me out there, I need to start looking out there and go the other way."? We've seen him go opposite field often, so not sure what the thought process is there. Clearly, more than one team has the information.

[Just Regular]

B-Ref this morning has Gunnar's 5.4 rWAR decimals ahead of Judge's 5.4, and it also now gives him a 12.5-12.4 career edge on Adley even with Rutschman's half season head start.

Both are just a couple rWAR away from entering the Top 100 active players, regardless of career length.     They both have a chance to catch Adam Frazier this season.

[dystopia]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:49 PM, Il BuonO said:

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. The last part after what made bold must be happening, but then why isn't he thinking "they're pitching me out there, I need to start looking out there and go the other way."? We've seen him go opposite field often, so not sure what the thought process is there. Clearly, more than one team has the information.

But we should totally go get Tommy Pham and ruin that mojo. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

B-Ref this morning has Gunnar's 5.4 rWAR decimals ahead of Judge's 5.4, and it also now gives him a 12.5-12.4 career edge on Adley even with Rutschman's half season head start.

Both are just a couple rWAR away from entering the Top 100 active players, regardless of career length.     They both have a chance to catch Adam Frazier this season.

Sadly, Gunnar is 0.1 behind Judge in fWAR. Either way, 5+ WAR with a few games left in the first half is MVP level, amazing for a second year 23 year old. An interesting benchmark that could be in play is Cal's career high of 11.5. 

Judge has to be well ahead of Frazier for career WAR. Are you saying both could produce Frazier's career WAR in this season alone? Yeah, that would be fun to see.

[AdamK]

With the amount of video information available immediately following at-bats, and the number of times Gunnar has looked peeved about called strikes outside, I have a hard time feeling like he's upset at anyone other than himself. I interpret his demeanor as a frustration with himself for not sufficiently protecting. 

Either way, he's the type of special talent that will fix it in his game soon enough.

[lfallo1]

1 hour ago, AdamK said:

With the amount of video information available immediately following at-bats, and the number of times Gunnar has looked peeved about called strikes outside, I have a hard time feeling like he's upset at anyone other than himself. I interpret his demeanor as a frustration with himself for not sufficiently protecting. 

Either way, he's the type of special talent that will fix it in his game soon enough.

Yea i mean her curses into his shirt every time he grounds out, and don't think he's cursing at the ump or anyone in particular.  He's intense as hell and wants a hit 100 out of 100 times and is pissed when he doesn't... This bothers me none.

[ledzepp8]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:03 PM, Malike said:

I mean, it's a bad look when you argue a strike 3 looking when it's clearly a strike, at least where I'm sitting. He appears to not see strikes on the outside corner well, he gets caught by them often enough to complain enough to make himself look foolish when he's shaking his head at the ump in protest. I'm sure when he goes to look at the iPad, he thinks oh, that was a strike.

To be fair, you don't know that he's shaking his head in disagreement with the umpire or if he's shaking his head at himself for watching strike 3 go by. Based on things Hyde has said about Gunnar thinking he should never make an out, I'm willing to believe he's shaking his head in disappointment with himself.

[Malike]

28 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

To be fair, you don't know that he's shaking his head in disagreement with the umpire or if he's shaking his head at himself for watching strike 3 go by. Based on things Hyde has said about Gunnar thinking he should never make an out, I'm willing to believe he's shaking his head in disappointment with himself.

I'd invite you to go watch both of his looking strikeouts against the Phillies on 6/16. Now, when players are generally disappointed with themselves, they don't turn and face the ump, shake their heads, and hold out their hands like that pitch was a ball. Bottom of the 5th and Bottom of the 8th. Enjoy! This is not a new thing.

Edited Friday at 18:39 by Malike

[Malike]

3 hours ago, AdamK said:

With the amount of video information available immediately following at-bats, and the number of times Gunnar has looked peeved about called strikes outside, I have a hard time feeling like he's upset at anyone other than himself. I interpret his demeanor as a frustration with himself for not sufficiently protecting. 

Either way, he's the type of special talent that will fix it in his game soon enough.

Is he telling the umps he's upset at himself? Why else would he look at them and point to the zone instead of just walking away?

[Too Tall]

My heavens - stop the music - Gunnar has a flaw? Let's all go bonkers. What's the point? I'll take Gunnar - flaw and all - over Soto going forward.  This is your issue after this series? I have a hard time understanding sometimes but that's just me. Guess we better not extent him then? I never cease to be amazed. IMO, Gunnar is a generational talent. If you want to look for warts - go at it. I'm not impressed.

[Malike]

6 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

My heavens - stop the music - Gunnar has a flaw? Let's all go bonkers. What's the point? I'll take Gunnar - flaw and all - over Soto going forward.  This is your issue after this series? I have a hard time understanding sometimes but that's just me. Guess we better not extent him then? I never cease to be amazed. IMO, Gunnar is a generational talent. If you want to look for warts - go at it. I'm not impressed.

Ah the voice of reason whenever someone has a criticism, God forbid. It's a bad look when players do things like that, we clown Jose Siri for doing it on clear strike 3 calls. Gunnar, as great as he is is not beyond criticism. Nobody cares if you are impressed or not, but when a 22-year-old starts jawing at umps when he clearly was struck out, it's not cool, no matter what team he is on.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, ledzepp8 said:

To be fair, you don't know that he's shaking his head in disagreement with the umpire or if he's shaking his head at himself for watching strike 3 go by. Based on things Hyde has said about Gunnar thinking he should never make an out, I'm willing to believe he's shaking his head in disappointment with himself.

100%. this ridiculousness by a few crankies around here is absolutely bonkers when it comes to Gunnar. He's one of, if not the best player in the game right now. And yes, he's still going to fail more than have success and yes, sometimes he's going to get frustrated, whether it with himself or the ump. Who cares?

The fact that Gunnar actually have posting busting on him just goes to show, you can never satisfy everyone. 

I mean, if we're in a game thread and you want to complain about a bad PA, then sure, but really, we're talking about whether or not Gunnar is mad at the umpires and think he has a flaw in his strike zone judgement?