John Means 2024

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Hopefully Means gets a rehab extension for another 30 days. If not, this seems right to me.

Does Bradish go to the pen, or does he start with one of Suarez, Kremer, or Irvin pushed to the pen? I kind of like Bradish as an opener with Irvin backing him up most of his starts.

They may be a way to start him out. But I hope that is not the plan long term. If you had a chance to listen to Hyde's comments they appear to be trying to build Bradish back up into a regular starter. He talked about him building toward 80 pitches in his next rehab outing.

In order for this team to get where it wants to go, we will need the Bradish of last year (or a comparable pitcher to that).

[Matt Bennett]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m thinking we see this,

Means for DFA Ramirez. Means will pitch out the pen. 

Bradish for Tate/Akin optioned to AAA. 

Yeah Tate could be optioned. He hasn’t been impressive. But I don’t think we have to try too hard to protect Mike Baumann either. He really hasn’t shown anything in his 4 years in the MLB that warrants protection. I have a hard time seeing his survival if/when Wells, Perez, Bradish, Means return. 

[Aristotelian]

21 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

They may be a way to start him out. But I hope that is not the plan long term. If you had a chance to listen to Hyde's comments they appear to be trying to build Bradish back up into a regular starter. He talked about him building toward 80 pitches in his next rehab outing.

In order for this team to get where it wants to go, we will need the Bradish of last year (or a comparable pitcher to that).

I'm not a doctor, so if the O's are confident he is up to going back into the rotation as a full time starter, I suppose I will trust it. However, it makes sense to me to be conservative and manage his innings so he is in peak form in Sept/Oct. Of course, that takes for granted that we can get to the playoffs with him in a lesser role which may not be the case, but my inclination would be to stretch him out later rather than sooner.

[dystopia]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m thinking we see this,

Means for DFA Ramirez. Means will pitch out the pen. 

Bradish for Tate/Akin optioned to AAA. 

Baumann has to be the one to go. I’m sure he’s a swell guy and all but he is not a major league pitcher. 

[Bemorewins]

13 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I'm not a doctor, so if the O's are confident he is up to going back into the rotation as a full time starter, I suppose I will trust it. However, it makes sense to me to be conservative and manage his innings so he is in peak form in Sept/Oct. Of course, that takes for granted that we can get to the playoffs with him in a lesser role which may not be the case, but my inclination would be to stretch him out later rather than sooner.

If the UCL is still a problem and the PRP has helped with the tearing, then it is not likely to matter how you divvy up the innings. Because the elbow is just a ticking time bomb. If the elbow is not right, it's better to find that out sooner rather than later. If he can go and be effective, then good. If not, go get the surgery (while we have time to acquire a suitable replacement), and then he can come back fully go once he is finished healing/rehabbing. 

I don't think 'babying' him/trying to manage his innings, serves anyone well in this case.

[Jim'sKid26]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

A big part of what caused Means to take the step forward he did was an increase in velocity.

2018 Means went 3.1 innings and gave up five earned runs.

Is it possible you are ascribing too much significance to his FB velocity? I suspect there were many things about the way Means pitching immediately prior to his injury that led to his success. His FB velocity likely contributed but was unlikely the dominant factor. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Is it possible you are ascribing too much significance to his FB velocity? I suspect there were many things about the way Means pitching immediately prior to his injury that led to his success. His FB velocity likely contributed but was unlikely the dominant factor. 

I'm not trying to put to much weight to his 2018 performance but I do think it is fair to say that the uptick in velocity was pretty key to his success.  I think fans tend to undervalue velocity, maybe they find the idea of a crafty guy painting the corners as being more appealing? 

[Natty]

Means latest start brings his ERA to 13.89 with 5 starts at Norfolk. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Natty said:

Means latest start brings his ERA to 13.89 with 5 starts at Norfolk. 

That's what, second on the team? 

[Jim'sKid26]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not trying to put to much weight to his 2018 performance but I do think it is fair to say that the uptick in velocity was pretty key to his success.  I think fans tend to undervalue velocity, maybe they find the idea of a crafty guy painting the corners as being more appealing? 

I guess my point is that the difference between 91 and 93 at the MLB level is probably negligible.  I would put significant emphasis on pitch sequencing, command and control, and the ability to land his secondary pitches.  If I am recalling his repertoire correctly his most important pitch is his change up.  And it was his ability to effectively throw a breaking pitch, I think it was a Slider, that really ushered in his pre-injury success.  Now you can make the case that 2 miles per hours of fastball velocity may make the change up an even more effective pitch.  I would not argue with you about that aspect, however I am not certain it explains much about his previous success.

Edited April 24 by Jim'sKid26

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Natty said:

Means latest start brings his ERA to 13.89 with 5 starts at Norfolk. 

In my book, he’s had two outings that were awful and three that were decent, including yesterday’s.  My guess is that if he has a decent outing on the 27th, the O’s won’t go through gymnastics to try to find a way to extend his rehab, even though his ERA has been a train wreck.  

[sportsfan8703]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In my book, he’s had two outings that were awful and three that were decent, including yesterday’s.  My guess is that if he has a decent outing on the 27th, the O’s won’t go through gymnastics to try to find a way to extend his rehab, even though his ERA has been a train wreck.  

True. When Means gets activated off of the IL is ERA will be 0.00. He’s not going to get handed a rotation spot, but I think he’ll replace Tate in the pen. 

I do wonder about the AAA defense. The IF seems really shaky and if Norby/Kjerstad are the everyday COF then oh my. 

[foxfield]

On 4/20/2024 at 3:22 PM, Bemorewins said:

Gee maybe for starters a useful pitcher like Flaherty’s teammate (Montgomery) who was available to acquire by trade instead. That’s just one example amongst several. 

At least Bradish and Grayson (who was a rookie) pitched. Flaherty was so (predictably) bad that we coulldn’t even use him in the playoffs (which was the only reason he was acquired). 

You mean the Montgomery who had a 9.0 ERA AGAINST US in the playoffs and still won?  Yeah. Bud you keep beating this horse, but as it turned out the Orioles didn't pitch, hit or play def the same way in the playoffs.  IF they had done that, perhaps it would have proven that the pitching was the reason the 23 playoffs ended for the O's.  I mean I agree that I wish we had gotten Montgomery.  But if Grayson pitched against Texas the way he pitched against Tampa or Wash in his last two starts...at the very least the O's do not get swept.  And maybe they get on a roll.  We don't know.

We do know that the best hitter for the Orioles in the playoffs last year was Jorge Mateo who outhit the entire team in one game (except Gunnar) going 4-5 in Game 3.  That kinda tells you something.

And not specifically to your point, but even though Bradish exited game one in 4.2 innings, he outlasted Heaney for the Rangers.  Game one comes down to the Jacob Webb HR, otherwise the bull pen does good work.  Win Game 1 and well everything looks different.  It didn't.  But not because of the point you consistently make that the Orioles failed to get a starter like Montgomery.  

They failed to perform pretty widely.  As is won't to do in a three game series.

Simply repeating it over and over, doesn't make it so.

[Malike]

We'll probably be lucky if Means can come back and give us Cole Irvin-type performances. The pitching has been pretty awful across the board, so throw as many things at the wall and hope something sticks.

Outside of Burnes, there are holes everywhere.

[bpilktree]

4 hours ago, dystopia said:

Baumann has to be the one to go. I’m sure he’s a swell guy and all but he is not a major league pitcher. 

Baumann was 10-1 with ERA 3.76 and whip of 1.3 last year.  He isn’t great but to say he is not a major league pitcher is absurd.  There are lots of guys with ERA’s around 5+ that stay in majors for years.