John Means 2024

[OriolesMagic83]

What happens after 30 days if the O's want to send Means to the minors and Means doesn't want go?  Can he refuse assignment?  I can't see him doing himself any favors leaving the O's if the O's are willing to work on getting him back to his former form and back in the rotation.

[dystopia]

32 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

What happens after 30 days if the O's want to send Means to the minors and Means doesn't want go?  Can he refuse assignment?  I can't see him doing himself any favors leaving the O's if the O's are willing to work on getting him back to his former form and back in the rotation.

Yeah he can. There was a lot of discussion about it back on page 6 or 7. 

[Malike]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:29 PM, btdart20 said:

Means has a legit resume that shouldn't be thrown out.  Even it if was 2-5 years ago.  That matters if for no other reason than as a reasonable ceiling for expectations.  Odds are he won't outperform that (and yes there are exceptions).

His injury/recovery and recent performance matters too.  Obviously.  

I think it's fair to view his AAA as ST-like but with an injury-risk asterisks.  That broadens the range of outcomes (i.e. lowers the floor).

I wouldn't have him as plan A either.  I had questions with sustainability of his ERA last year.  But how many #2/3 upside SPs are on speed dial?  (And he'd be in the SP3-SP5 range for us.)  Pitching is thin and everyone is scrounging for arms.  A dice role (or 2 if you throw Bradish in this discussion) at upside is worth it.

Another few games will impact expectations. 

I said it before and  I'll say it again. We remember Means being the only good pitcher on the worst team in baseball by far, for years. I get we romanticize those players, but he wasn't an Ace then and he sure doesn't look like he'll be one now.

[dystopia]

Just now, Malike said:

I said it before and  I'll say it again. We remember Means being the only good pitcher on the worst team in baseball by far, for years. I get we romanticize those players, but he wasn't an Ace then and he sure doesn't look like he'll be one now.

I don't think anyone expects him to be anything more than a #5 in this rotation. A good #5, but still a #5. 

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I don't think anyone expects him to be anything more than a #5 in this rotation. A good #5, but still a #5. 

He's shown nothing post TJ to suggest he'll be effective at the ML level again.

[OriolesMagic83]

The O's could tell him if agrees to go to the minors, they will have an agreed upon date to recall him by or grant him his release.  There could be an agreement on a 1 year deal for 2025 if he looks like he can come back.  The O's are going to be short starters and Means is going to have a lot to prove as it looks questionable if he can pitch even 1/2 a season.

[dystopia]

6 minutes ago, Malike said:

He's shown nothing post TJ to suggest he'll be effective at the ML level again.

I was referring to your ace comment. No one expected him to come back and pitch like an ace, even before the disastrous rehab.

[EddeeEddee]

11 minutes ago, Malike said:

He's shown nothing post TJ to suggest he'll be effective at the ML level again.

Means pitched well the few games he pitched last season.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, EddeeEddee said:

Means pitched well the few games he pitched last season.  

Eh, the ERA was nice but the FIP was over 5 and he only struck out 3.8/9.

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Means pitched well the few games he pitched last season.  

The results were okay in 23 innings, he struck out 3.8 batters/9 and had a FIP of 5.24 and an xFIP of 5.91. 

[dystopia]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Eh, the ERA was nice but the FIP was over 5 and he only struck out 3.8/9.

Nobody cares, and it's a SSS. 

[EddeeEddee]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Eh, the ERA was nice but the FIP was over 5 and he only struck out 3.8/9.

True, but I think he pitched well enough for a guy coming back from TJ and other injuries.  He could be done but I think it's much too soon to give up on him.  I do wonder if the O's are thinking of trying him out of the bullpen assuming they do promote him eventually.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Nobody cares, and it's a SSS. 

Someone said he pitched well in a "few games".  I provided information. 

I watched those games and he didn't look as good to me as the score would indicate.

[Frobby]

I’m very worried about Means’ rehab to date, but not writing him off, either.  Hopefully he’s better next time out.  

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Someone said he pitched well in a "few games".  I provided information. 

I watched those games and he didn't look as good to me as the score would indicate.

I thought he looked amazing in that Cleveland game, even though he only struck out 4 in 7.1 innings.  He was in complete control of that game.