I dont know if Im allowed to talk about the Tides on this page....but Stowers is ridiculous and so is Kjerstad

[Ohfan67]

33 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I am glad to see all the position prospects/young players performing well at the plate. (It sure beats the alternative!)

However, I am not particularly impressed to see players who are repeating a level (some for the THIRD) doing well at ANY level. 

IMO our AAA lineup’s early season video game numbers speaks more about Elias’ hoarding talent philosophy/strategy and his extreme caution, more than anything else.

These players success shows that they don’t believe at that level and are not really being challenged from inferior competition, which does not really excite me. The logjam at AAA and our inability/apprehension with getting rid of guys at the Major League level who are not particularly useful for a World Series contender is more concerning to me.

This is an exaggeration. Holliday is not repeating a level. Mayo is not repeating a level. Kjerstad has not played a full season at AAA (about half a season of AAA games). Norby has played in 152 AAA games, two games more than one full AAA season. Stowers has played in 190 AAA games. So Norby and Stowers are really the only ones that are repeating AAA and neither of them have played two seasons worth of games in AAA (150 games per season). I too strongly wish that most of these guys were on the MLB roster, especially Holliday, but Norby and Stowers are really the only repeaters and they are clearly the second tier prospects in that list. Again, I wish most if not all of these guys were on the roster, but it's inaccurate IMO to chalk up their early season success to repeating a level as that is clearly not the case for Holliday, Mayo, and Kjerstad, although Kjerstad's developmental path is a weird beast because of his health issue.  

[spleen1015]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Watching the Norfolk game from last night since I got MLB.tv this year I remembered I could watch the minor league games, too.  Minor league baseball is cool to watch but having the camera high and behind home plate for the pitch is obnoxious.

Also good to see 1992 ROY Pat Listach hanging around, too.

You get the home teams broadcast. For the Tides, it's behind the pitcher.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, spleen1015 said:

You get the home teams broadcast. For the Tides, it's behind the pitcher.

Yeah, I figured there was only the home team broadcast...kind of annoying in this case.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

This is an exaggeration. Holliday is not repeating a level. Mayo is not repeating a level. Kjerstad has not played a full season at AAA (about half a season of AAA games). Norby has played in 152 AAA games, two games more than one full AAA season. Stowers has played in 190 AAA games. So Norby and Stowers are really the only ones that are repeating AAA and neither of them have played two seasons worth of games in AAA (150 games per season). I too strongly wish that most of these guys were on the MLB roster, especially Holliday, but Norby and Stowers are really the only repeaters and they are clearly the second tier prospects in that list. Again, I wish most if not all of these guys were on the roster, but it's inaccurate IMO to chalk up their early season success to repeating a level as that is clearly not the case for Holliday, Mayo, and Kjerstad, although Kjerstad's developmental path is a weird beast because of his health issue.  

Repeating a level does not equate to 162 as it is extremely rare that you would expect top prospects to spend 162 games at each or any level.

Repeating a level means (at least to me) going back to begin the level that you ended last season at.

My point original point was that these guys have showed that they don’t belong at AAA. And more than being impressed by that, I am concerned that we are now in this situation where guy’s who don’t believe on the Orioles get to stay at the MLB level while guys who don’t belong at AAA get to stay at the Minor League. They seems to be a strategy you would deploy during a rebuild, not one that you would use win you are trying to compete for a pennant.

Opportunities must be ceased within the lifetime of the opportunity. The clock is ticking on Adley and Gunnar. How much time/how many seasons are we planning to operate in this half-in and half-out manner?

[foxfield]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Repeating a level does not equate to 162 as it is extremely rare that you would expect top prospects to spend 162 games at each or any level.

Repeating a level means (at least to me) going back to begin the level that you ended last season at.

My point original point was that these guys have showed that they don’t belong at AAA. And more than being impressed by that, I am concerned that we are now in this situation where guy’s who don’t believe on the Orioles get to stay at the MLB level while guys who don’t belong at AAA get to stay at the Minor League. They seems to be a strategy you would deploy during a rebuild, not one that you would use win you are trying to compete for a pennant.

Opportunities must be ceased within the lifetime of the opportunity. The clock is ticking on Adley and Gunnar. How much time/how many seasons are we planning to operate in this half-in and half-out manner?

So if a prospect is called up for the last 15 games of AAA and starts the next season in AAA...you consider that repeating a level?  That's incorrect by any logical definition.

[ThisIsBirdland]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Repeating a level does not equate to 162 as it is extremely rare that you would expect top prospects to spend 162 games at each or any level.

Repeating a level means (at least to me) going back to begin the level that you ended last season at.

My point original point was that these guys have showed that they don’t belong at AAA. And more than being impressed by that, I am concerned that we are now in this situation where guy’s who don’t believe on the Orioles get to stay at the MLB level while guys who don’t belong at AAA get to stay at the Minor League. They seems to be a strategy you would deploy during a rebuild, not one that you would use win you are trying to compete for a pennant.

Opportunities must be ceased within the lifetime of the opportunity. The clock is ticking on Adley and Gunnar. How much time/how many seasons are we planning to operate in this half-in and half-out manner?

If these guys spend most of summer down there, I think you're on to something. But ending the season at AAA, regardless of how much time was spent there, doesn't necessarily mean one is ready for MLB. Also, let's not act like we haven't seen some rough defense down there to go with the good offense.

As has been said, Stowers/Norby have spent enough time there. But the O's aren't going to start dumping veterans for them after 6 regular season games, and those veterans pretty clearly block them right now.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

So if a prospect is called up for the last 15 games of AAA and starts the next season in AAA...you consider that repeating a level?  That's incorrect by any logical definition.

Yes. If that player is on the talent level of a Jackson Holliday and has shown that they don’t need extra time at that level. 

[Gentile4]

I can't help but wonder whether Kjerstadt or Stowers might not be a better option over Hays at this point.

[btdart20]

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

36 times on base.  I'm surprised they didn't use subs.  Could get tiring running all those bases.  Greedy Holliday having to get 2 walks when I'm sure he could have had 2 hits.

Why sub?  Let 'em build stats so Getz and the White Sox get a good look at them!

You make them remember the night they played the Tide!

[foxfield]

7 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Yes. If that player is on the talent level of a Jackson Holliday and has shown that they don’t need extra time at that level. 

I think you can certainly make a credible argument that Jackson Holliday is ready.  I think most of us agree he is.  But he certainly isn't repeating AAA.  But even if we both agree and say he is an exception....there are not many people who fit this and it would in fact prove to be an exception and certainly not the rule.

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

If these guys spend most of summer down there, I think you're on to something. But ending the season at AAA, regardless of how much time was spent there, doesn't necessarily mean one is ready for MLB. Also, let's not act like we haven't seen some rough defense down there to go with the good offense.

As has been said, Stowers/Norby have spent enough time there. But the O's aren't going to start dumping veterans for them after 6 regular season games, and those veterans pretty clearly block them right now.

I get that it’s too early in the season to move off of guys with an established track record like Hays. My original response to the OP was speaking more to the inability of our decision makers to be decisive overall and seemingly suffering from paralysis by analysis.

However, RIGHT NOW Urias is not a starter on a championship level team. He is a decent player/starter on a bad team or a backup on a good team. Giving regular ABs to guys like him and Mateo while carrying a relative useless player in Kemp. And at the same time guys like Mullins and Hays struggle is too much. And not helpful for winning.

I hope/expect Hays and Mullins to pick it up. And understand them being given a longer leash. 

But of Urias, Mateo, Kemp only ONE of them should be on the team as the 26th man. Mateo’s speed has some value. The other two don’t bring anything useful IMO. 

For now, Holliday could immediately take over as the primary 2B and be fine there defensively. We could find enough playing time for Mayo as a RHH bat (DH and some 3B).

[Ohfan67]

33 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

How much time/how many seasons are we planning to operate in this half-in and half-out manner?

I think Elias hopes to operate this way forever. Young players hammering on the door to the show while the MLB team wins. Orioles fans haven't seen this kind of thing since the '70s or even '60s. It is very rare in the modern game. And probably isn't sustainable for the O's unless the international prospects really pan out.  It is frustrating in some ways, but good lord what a talented organization. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I get that it’s too early in the season to move off of guys with an established track record like Hays. My original response to the OP was speaking more to the inability of our decision makers to be decisive overall and seemingly suffering from paralysis by analysis.

However, RIGHT NOW Urias is not a starter on a championship level team. He is a decent player/starter on a bad team or a backup on a good team. Giving regular ABs to guys like him and Mateo while carrying a relative useless player in Kemp. And at the same time guys like Mullins and Hays struggle is too much. And not helpful for winning.

I hope/expect Hays and Mullins to pick it up. And understand them being given a longer leash. 

But of Urias, Mateo, Kemp only ONE of them should be on the team as the 26th man. Mateo’s speed has some value. The other two don’t bring anything useful IMO. 

For now, Holliday could immediately take over as the primary 2B and be fine there defensively. We could find enough playing time for Mayo as a RHH bat (DH and some 3B).

Urias acquitted himself well enough over the last two years and in ST to make the team. He's good enough defensively at all INF positions to have a role for a couple months this spring, and that shouldn't be discounted. He should probably be PH more in close games when the game is on the line. Holliday-Gunnar-Westburg should be your regular starters once Holliday is up, but I don't think they need to rush Mayo up when his defense clearly isn't ready. It doesn't sound like Norby is a legitimate INF candidate defensively.

Kemp will definitely be DFA'd when they decide to bring Holliday up. We can be pissed off about service time manipulation but unless they were just waiting out these early LHP, I think he's going to be down until he can't earn the year back in ROY voting at this point. I guess I'd rather see Kjerstad/Stowers as a bench bat than Kemp, and disregard the LH 2B obsession Elias seemingly has, but then you're really not seeing enough at-bats as a 5th OF on a team.

Mateo they're going to keep.

[Hallas]

4 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Thanks for telling me what I do and dont know....

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I think Elias hopes to operate this way forever. Young players hammering on the door to the show while the MLB team wins. Orioles fans haven't seen this kind of thing since the '70s or even '60s. It is very rare in the modern game. And probably isn't sustainable for the O's unless the international prospects really pan out.  It is frustrating in some ways, but good lord what a talented organization. 

If you are implying that Elias' plan includes replacing and replicating star level talent at an unprecedented frequency for the history of the game. Then all I can say is I hope that is not true. And if it is, I hope somebody above him/the new owner will put a stop to that. That would be an egomaniac run amuck. I can't see that turning out well for us in the long run.  

I really hope none of this is the case. And I hope that Elias is way to smart and humble to take such an approach.