Are we worried about MLB-worst walk rate?

[Uli2001]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why do you want to elevate the opposing pitcher's pitch count?

To get the starter out sooner and go through their middle relief.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Uli2001 said:

To get the starter out sooner and go through their middle relief.

Why would you want to do that?

Wouldn't you rather face the starter for the third time over a fresh bullpen arm?

[dystopia]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why would you want to do that?

Wouldn't you rather face the starter for the third time over a fresh bullpen arm?

I mean... this would depend on who you're facing and how good of a bullpen the team has. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, dystopia said:

I mean... this would depend on who you're facing and how good of a bullpen the team has. 

Sure, which would mean you shouldn't just blindly try and raise pitch counts.

I'm fine with having multiple strategies depends on the matchup.

But some people, if you hang out in the game threads you know of whom I speak, treat winning the  pitch count battle as being the primary goal of the game.

A lot of the time I'd rather face a starter whose dealing with the TTTTOP over a bullpen guy.

[dystopia]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, which would mean you shouldn't just blindly try and raise pitch counts.

I'm fine with having multiple strategies depends on the matchup.

But some people, if you hang out in the game threads you know of whom I speak, treat winning the  pitch count battle as being the primary goal of the game.

A lot of the time I'd rather face a starter whose dealing with the TTTTOP over a bullpen guy.

No, but you shouldn't be afraid of taking walks because getting on base is good. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, dystopia said:

No, but you shouldn't be afraid of taking walks because getting on base is good. 

I don't think anyone is saying swing at garbage just to swing at garbage.

But taking a hittable pitch just to take a pitch just puts you behind in the count.

The post I was responding to was talking about raising pitch counts, not getting on base.

Edited June 13 by Can_of_corn
added info.

[Hallas]

Rutschman is probably the poster child for our increasingly free-swinging ways.  There was a little blurb in Dan Szymborski's chat regarding his free swinging ways, and Dan felt like it was a conscious decision to swing at more marginal pitches.  I took a more careful look at the swing/take data and I think the data does support that, and I think Rutschman is overall a bit more valuable swinging away at marginal pitches.

 

You can see the change in his swing decisions on pitches in the shadow zone.  He's actually making solid contact with these pitches at a high enough rate that it's been worth it to lose some plate discipline.

[dystopia]

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think anyone is saying swing at garbage just to swing at garbage.

But taking a hittable pitch just to take a pitch just puts you behind in the count.

The post I was responding to was talking about raising pitch counts, not getting on base.

"If a team is not getting walks, they aren't elevating the opponent pitcher's pitch count."

Sounds like he was talking about getting on base to me.

[dystopia]

35 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think anyone is saying swing at garbage just to swing at garbage.

But taking a hittable pitch just to take a pitch just puts you behind in the count.

The post I was responding to was talking about raising pitch counts, not getting on base.

Also, getting Lopez out of the game on pitch count is what gave the O's a chance today.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

"If a team is not getting walks, they aren't elevating the opponent pitcher's pitch count."

Sounds like he was talking about getting on base to me.

Sounds to me like the emphasis on the sentence is on elevating the pitch count.  The walks are the side effect, not the goal.

Been a few decades since I've had a proper class in English sentence structure but that's how it scans to me.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Also, getting Lopez out of the game on pitch count is what gave the O's a chance today.

That's a singular event.  You could have had any number of games in which fresh bullpen arms shut a team down but they would have scored on a starter.

You can't use a single game as anything more than a data point.

 

*I was at work today and didn't see the game.*

[dystopia]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's a singular event.  You could have had any number of games in which fresh bullpen arms shut a team down but they would have scored on a starter.

You can't use a single game as anything more than a data point.

 

*I was at work today and didn't see the game.*

I also didn’t see the game but listened on the radio. Just saying, there are many times where it’s good. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I also didn’t see the game but listened on the radio. Just saying, there are many times where it’s good. 

Sure.

But if it's a pitch you can drive you might very well be better off swinging.

The goal of most at bats shouldn't be to maximize pitches thrown.

If that was a real goal for teams I think you'd see more guys that are really good at fouling off pitches on ML rosters.

[Uli2001]

On 6/13/2024 at 6:18 PM, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, which would mean you shouldn't just blindly try and raise pitch counts.

I'm fine with having multiple strategies depends on the matchup.

But some people, if you hang out in the game threads you know of whom I speak, treat winning the  pitch count battle as being the primary goal of the game.

A lot of the time I'd rather face a starter whose dealing with the TTTTOP over a bullpen guy.

Starters and middle relievers are starters and middle relievers, respectively, for a reason.

Regardless, elevating pitch count makes the other team use more of their pitchers. This is important in a game and in a series.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Uli2001 said:

Starters and middle relievers are starters and middle relievers, respectively, for a reason.

Regardless, elevating pitch count makes the other team use more of their pitchers. This is important in a game and in a series.

And?

Is it easier to score runs off a starter facing a lineup for the third time or a relief pitcher?

I might agree with you on the later point if they were playing a home and home series.

There might be a small advantage in the third of fourth game but it's probably going to be marginal and might not be more than the advantage you get facing a starter for a third time in those games.