Speculating on how the O's handle the pitching logjam

[Orioles0615]

We have a picthing log jam? 

 

All I see is two picthers on the IL with elbow problems one who has an injury history and getting lit up in AAA. And a bunch of mediocre relief picthers 

[Bemorewins]

39 minutes ago, interloper said:

I disagree with the entirety of this post. 

That's fine. 

But let me ask you from the pitchers on our roster not named Burnes (ace), Grayson (potential ace or very good #2), Coloumbe, Cano, Kimbrel, maybe Suarez (who we don't know about yet but looks good so far) and maybe Bradish; which of our other pitchers isn't mediocre to below average?

Of all the pitchers that the OP claimed was some sort of dilemma, please name the one(s) who are good/very good/great/elite and cannot be replaced with similar talent.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

That's fine. 

But let me ask you from the pitchers on our roster not named Burnes (ace), Grayson (potential ace or very good #2), Coloumbe, Cano, Kimbrel, maybe Suarez (who we don't know about yet but looks good so far) and maybe Bradish; which of our other pitchers isn't mediocre to below average?

Of all the pitchers that the OP claimed was some sort of dilemma, please name the one(s) who are good/very good/great/elite and cannot be replaced with similar talent.

I'll pass! I stand by my OP. 

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, thegardner said:

Have you seen Burnes pitch?

Yes and he is excellent!! I was referring to the pitchers that the OP mentioned - Means, Irvin, Perez, Tate, Akin, Ramirez.

I said that it looks good so far with Suarez but it is too early to tell. And maybe Bradish can come back and be last year's version (that's a big question due to the elbow injury).

But among the bolded, which of those is some type of good pitcher that creates this "logjam"/dilemma? 

Honestly, I they are all interchangeable in some way (obviously starters for starters and relievers for relievers). But non are irreplaceable and/or are likely to make any kind of significant difference. That is why I do not see a "logjam". 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'll pass! I stand by my OP. 

That's the great thing about this message board! We are free to disagree and that's fine.

[HandsomeQuack]

I wouldn't go as far as to call the current situation a logjam, but Kremer deserves a mention as being better than the mediocre/below average tier. Certainly more than Suarez. He's not an All Star but guys like him don't grow on trees, either. So that's, when everyone is healthy, four average-or-better starters, plus Means who if nothing else should be very good for a 5.

Having Tyler Wells as a setup option should transform the entire pen. His career slash allowed as a reliever is .168/.212/.319.

[now]

Without looking at splits, I was impressed by Suarez's determination, in a recent pregame interview, to be a starter. He signed here for that opportunity and has done well to seize it and run with it. A shame to mess with what's working. 

I guess the majority of pitchers (e.g., Wells and Hall) would say they prefer starting. The Orioles gave Hall his chance--elsewhere--and Wells may be destined for the pen now due to durability issues. But for now I'd favor keeping Suarez in the rotation as long as he's having success there.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

 

Of all the pitchers that the OP claimed was some sort of dilemma, please name the one(s) who are good/very good/great/elite and cannot be replaced with similar talent.

Isn’t the fact that they’re all at about the same level the reason why it’s a dilemma?   If a couple of guys were clearly a cut above the others, the dilemma wouldn’t exist.   

That said, Kremer, Irvin and Suarez all had good turns in the rotation the last time through.   There’s no huge rush to move anyone out of the rotation IMO.
 

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, HandsomeQuack said:

I wouldn't go as far as to call the current situation a logjam, but Kremer deserves a mention as being better than the mediocre/below average tier. Certainly more than Suarez. He's not an All Star but guys like him don't grow on trees, either. So that's, when everyone is healthy, four average-or-better starters, plus Means who if nothing else should be very good for a 5.

Having Tyler Wells as a setup option should transform the entire pen. His career slash allowed as a reliever is .168/.212/.319.

Yes. My apologies for omitting him. He is a solid back of the rotation starter IMO.

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Isn’t the fact that they’re all at about the same level the reason why it’s a dilemma?   If a couple of guys were clearly a cut above the others, the dilemma wouldn’t exist.   

That said, Kremer, Irvin and Suarez all had good turns in the rotation the last time through.   There’s no huge rush to move anyone out of the rotation IMO.
 

Not IMO because they are all around the same, you will probably get similar results any way you go. There’s no big risk in substituting one with another (bullpen arm for bullpen arm, starter for starter).

I just don’t think any of them are effective enough to really lose any sleep over.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, HandsomeQuack said:

I wouldn't go as far as to call the current situation a logjam, but Kremer deserves a mention as being better than the mediocre/below average tier. Certainly more than Suarez. He's not an All Star but guys like him don't grow on trees, either. So that's, when everyone is healthy, four average-or-better starters, plus Means who if nothing else should be very good for a 5.

Having Tyler Wells as a setup option should transform the entire pen. His career slash allowed as a reliever is .168/.212/.319.

I'm keeping Suarez in the mlb rotation over Irvin.  Means shouldn't go back in the rotation until he show he can get ML hitters out.  I would rather see him in the bullpen than the rotation 

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, HandsomeQuack said:

I wouldn't go as far as to call the current situation a logjam, but Kremer deserves a mention as being better than the mediocre/below average tier. Certainly more than Suarez. He's not an All Star but guys like him don't grow on trees, either. So that's, when everyone is healthy, four average-or-better starters, plus Means who if nothing else should be very good for a 5.

Having Tyler Wells as a setup option should transform the entire pen. His career slash allowed as a reliever is .168/.212/.319.

I think it may be a stretch to say that Means in 2024 given his injury history over the last 2+ years and his ineffectiveness at AAA, “should be very good” even for a #5.

I guess you may say he “could” be a a very good number 5. But I think things are very iffy as far as he is concerned. Hopefully, he is effective, but it’s far from a given.

[Billy F-Face3]

I think they kick the can down the line as far as they can before they are forced to make a decision on what to do with Suarez and Irvin.  

I think you let albert start as much as possible before you have to move him into the bullpen. And if he does go to the bullpen, I think he can be a high leverage reliever and close games when Kimbrel needa a rest.

I don't see much of a role in the bullpen for Irvin unless he's a traditional long/swing man spot starter. But Irvin is the only got outside of Burnes who can possibly approach 190 innings pitched in a season and he's also a rare lefty so I think that has value for the starting rotation.

[HandsomeQuack]

44 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I think it may be a stretch to say that Means in 2024 given his injury history over the last 2+ years and his ineffectiveness at AAA, “should be very good” even for a #5.

I guess you may say he “could” be a a very good number 5. But I think things are very iffy as far as he is concerned. Hopefully, he is effective, but it’s far from a given.

I could have left out the "very" in "very good", I guess. My statement was assuming he does not get re-injured, which is not a given. If you looked at the other 29 teams and picked out their current weakest link in the rotation, I'd imagine a healthy Means projects to be better than 20 of them. But I agree that he is not without question marks.

[HandsomeQuack]

51 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I'm keeping Suarez in the mlb rotation over Irvin.  Means shouldn't go back in the rotation until he show he can get ML hitters out.  I would rather see him in the bullpen than the rotation 

Yeah, given Means's tough rehab outings I wouldn't mind them riding the hot hand with Suarez in the rotation. It just seems likely that the "hot hand" will cool off soon.