Earning Ace reputation

[Spy Fox]

41 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

MLB Ranks

ERA - 21st

WHIP - 16th

FIP - 36th

That is with the benefit of facing KC (twice), Angels, Oakland, and Washington

I think a theme of the OP is that some of the "ace" label is about track record. If Burnes continues at his current levels, he'll finish a lot higher in these rankings-- some guys ahead of him in these stats are unknown quantities or are overperforming. But we have good reason to believe Burnes can keep up at something like this level for the full year. 

[Malike]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We're facing their big 3, but yet they aren't facing our big 3 of Burnes, Bradish, Grayson.  So it's not necessarily a playoff preview.  The back of the rotation will have to step it up.  2/3 would be huge here.  

They will be facing Burnes. The way Rodriguez has pitched, I'd probably not put him in the "big 3" category.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

MLB Ranks

ERA - 21st

WHIP - 16th

FIP - 36th

That is with the benefit of facing KC (twice), Angels, Oakland, and Washington

If this is the standard we’re setting, then none of the SEA guys are aces either, so we may as well just shut the whole thread down. None of them rank particularly highly across the board in these metrics over the course of the first 10 starts of the season, either. 

As the thread is getting at, the ace status requires sustained performance at a high level — not a hot start or even a hot season. When you start to look back over the last 2-3 seasons, each of the 3 legit aces that were referenced (Burnes, Castillo, Kirby) is sitting right around the top 10 in most/all of these metrics. It would be pretty surprising if that wasn’t the case come August and September.

It’s also a little weird to have to defend a starter with a 2.68 ERA. Would have been the 2nd-best SP ERA in the American League last year, and closer to Cole than to Gray/Bradish. And just for the record, the Royals are top 10 in runs scored so far, so that’s not a real advantage — and the Angels are top 15, and he had to face them while they still had Trout.

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Of course, but you don't think we had some prior conversations with him and some ideas about load management for this season were discussed?  Load management will be good for Burnes and us.  We need him available for the playoffs.  

I don't know if it works that way or not.  He wasn't a 10 and 5 guy, it's not like he could have vetoed the trade.

After he got here?  Probably.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

 

It’s also a little weird to have to defend a starter with a 2.68 ERA. 

 

If it's weird to have to defend a starter with a 2.68 ERA, imagine what it must be like to attack it.

[Roy Firestone]

2 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

If Corbin Burnes is an Ace, why doesn't he perform like one?

what? 85 pitches..isn't enough for you? 

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If it's weird to have to defend a starter with a 2.68 ERA, imagine what it must be like to attack it.

Sources must be considered in regard to this matter.

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Roy Firestone said:

what? 85 pitches..isn't enough for you? 

With the way the offense has played, every pitch is a high-leverage pitch. He had to grind that game, Toronto makes a lot of contact. If your starter tells you he's fatigued, believe him. Burnes is pitching for a massive contract, the last thing he wants is to have a stinker of a season.

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

what? 85 pitches..isn't enough for you? 

If he regularly was bowing out after 85 pitches, I probably wouldn’t consider him an ace.  That’s not his history and I doubt it will be a regular occurrence this year.  I’m definitely not holding it against him that he had a game where he got tired a bit earlier than usual.  It happens.  

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'll take 200 innings of a 2.68 ERA for a season and a 1.000-ish Whip.  Should win a lot of ballgames with that.

If the Ks and missed bats are going to trend down, those numbers won’t continue.

I don’t expect this to happen but still, have to look deeper into things imo.

[AlbNYfan]

28 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

what? 85 pitches..isn't enough for you? 

Pretty absurd statement from a guy that lived through an era that complete games were common by starting pitchers. So, no, 85 should not be enough, 5 innings is not enough. Is he solid? Yes. Am I happy he's an O? Yes. But, if the magic number is 100 pitches for a starter, I expect at least 110 from an "ace".

[Just Regular]

I also think top alpha dogs relish the head-to-head challenges of Berrios or Kirby - you could feel a little extra juice on Monday.

Some of the world's best pitchers may be conflicted about what cliches to deploy after the great George Kirby candor kerfuffle of 2023.

You have to manifest the bearing of Old Hoss Radbourn while gracefully accepting when your org decides you aren't good enough for third time through the order.

Cole Irvin practiced coping by drawing a pretend imaginary fence, but it didn't work.

[DirtyBird]

48 minutes ago, Malike said:

With the way the offense has played, every pitch is a high-leverage pitch. He had to grind that game, Toronto makes a lot of contact. If your starter tells you he's fatigued, believe him. Burnes is pitching for a massive contract, the last thing he wants is to have a stinker of a season.

How about the KC game with a 7-0 lead and couldn't get through 6 innings?

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, AlbNYfan said:

Pretty absurd statement from a guy that lived through an era that complete games were common by starting pitchers. So, no, 85 should not be enough, 5 innings is not enough. Is he solid? Yes. Am I happy he's an O? Yes. But, if the magic number is 100 pitches for a starter, I expect at least 110 from an "ace".

Well that’s interesting, because there’s not a single pitcher in MLB averaging 100 pitches per start.  The list tops out at 99.  I guess there are no aces, then.  Burnes averaged 92 the year he won the Cy Young, but I suppose he wasn’t an ace then either.   He’s never averaged 100 pitches per start.   

[Malike]

13 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

How about the KC game with a 7-0 lead and couldn't get through 6 innings?

What is your point? Gerrit Cole averaged 6.3 IP per game last year. Zack Wheeler 6IP, Spencer Strider 5.8.  I'm not sure why you keep pushing some weird narrative that Burnes is no good, but you aren't going to convince many people. He's the best pitcher we have and it's not particularly close. 5 of the guys ahead of him last year are hurt this year.

Edited May 16 by Malike