The 2024 Trade Deadline

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Carlos Rodon expected ERA is over 4 and we already beat him around for 6 runs earlier in the season. The Yankees will have Cole and a bunch of guys over performing. Gil will more than likely be shut down or moved to pen.

And even with that, would you not take Rodon over Irvin/Kremer/a rookie Povich?

Also, let's say that you are correct and the Yanks starting pitcher falls apart or we are able to best them as is. Would you be confident in the next round if the opposition top 3 is Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez? And yes I know that we roughed up Rodon and Wheeler. But are you confident in us continuing to do that? I hope we can, but I am not very confident that Wheeler especially wouldn't make adjustments.

[emmett16]

17 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Ok, so let's do it this way. Let's take the uniforms and team names off of the situation. Let's say it's not Orioles vs Yankees. But team A vs team B. 

Now in that scenario, you compare the pitching talent of Carlos Rodon vs the talent Irvin/Kremer/Povich, which would you favor objectively?

When you have an org with this much talent, my opinion is that we should be beyond being the underdog and relying on magical thinking that lesser talented players will outperform more talented ones. I know that we have been conditioned to that being the case for the last 30- 40 years. But it needn't not be that way anymore IMO.

You broke your own rule And mentioned a name. 
 

I’ll take the 1.61 era 234era+ 2.79 FIP 

 Over the  3.28 era 122 era+ 3.99 FIP 

The other guy you mentioned also objectively has better stats than Team B’s guy. 

[Bemorewins]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Crochet can dominate.  Fedde can execute.   Fedde is going to cost less than Crochet.    Crochet is a better bet to dominate one game.   Fedde is a better bet to be healthy and strong in October.  If I wanted the best pitcher of the two on talent alone, it would be Crochet, hands down.

I appreciate the assessment! Sounds like a very tough choice. I hope that we choose wisely (if it is between these two or others) and get it right this time.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I don’t understand all the talk of Crochet. It’s been made pretty clear that the guy probably won’t even be pitching post all star break due to innings limits post-TJ. If we trade for him it shouldn’t/wouldn’t be with the idea that he’ll help this year. Which means we won’t trade for him yet he’s constantly under discussion here. What am I missing?

I’ve seen some posters mention it.  Have the WS stated they are shutting him down at a certain innings limit?   Is there any science that says a TJ pícher coming back in his first year needs an innings limit?   Just because the WS might shut him down doesn’t mean another team has to do the same thing as long as Crochet is on board.

I have a feeling there are plenty of TJ pitchers who pitched a full season in their first year back.   I can also find plenty of non TJ guys who went from very few innings one year to a full load the next year.  
 

In short, nothing is written in stone with regards to pitchers.

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Can we play the same game removing the names from the back of the jersey?  Is there really a difference between Rodon and Irvin over 2023-2024?

I think Rodon is more talented of a pitcher. And if the players were reversed I would be more confident with him on the bump vs Irvin. But that's just me. And this is coming from someone who marvels and really appreciates what Irvin has given us so far this season. It is way beyond anything that I could have ever dreamed for from him!

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

You broke your own rule And mentioned a name. 
 

I’ll take the 1.61 era 234era+ 2.79 FIP 

 Over the  3.28 era 122 era+ 3.99 FIP 

The other guy you mentioned also objectively has better stats than Team B’s guy. 

So you feel better about our guys. I don't. In the end, I hope that you are right!

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I appreciate the assessment! Sounds like a very tough choice. I hope that we choose wisely (if it is between these two or others) and get it right this time.

The thing is, Eric Fedde was a nobody before this year.  He’s having a great first half.  There’s nothing to say he’ll be any better than Kremer come October.   

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The thing is, Eric Fedde was a nobody before this year.  He’s having a great first half.  There’s nothing to say he’ll be any better than Kremer come October.   

There is risk in ANY path that Elias takes (even in doing nothing). I just personally feel the best bet is to bet on talent. But even that can fail, especially with the injury risk of pitchers.

I hope that Elias makes a bold decisive move instead of choosing to take on as little risk as possible and accepting the lowered reward that comes with that.

[interloper]

All I can say is I wish it was any other team that had the SPs up for trade. It's so annoying dealing with Chicago. They could just hold them all until the offseason, too. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

All I can say is I wish it was any other team that had the SPs up for trade. It's so annoying dealing with Chicago. They could just hold them all until the offseason, too. 

I guess you didn’t have a good experience dealing with Chicago.  Did Getz not return your calls?

[interloper]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I guess you didn’t have a good experience dealing with Chicago.  Did Getz not return your calls?

We're already hearing about their "exorbitant" asking price for Crochet price just like we did for Cease. That's all I mean. 

Edited June 17 by interloper

[emmett16]

18 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

So you feel better about our guys. I don't. In the end, I hope that you are right!

Looking at the numbers objectively, Irvin & Suarez have out pitched Rodon.  If you are giving points for name recognition, then sure, Rodon would be a more popular choice.

Have you taken a few minutes to check out their statcast #s?  Suarez has objectively been the better pitcher.  

[Sports Guy]

I don’t understand why anyone would want to give up high end assets for Crochet. 

[Fiver6565]

35 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I’ve seen some posters mention it.  Have the WS stated they are shutting him down at a certain innings limit?   Is there any science that says a TJ pícher coming back in his first year needs an innings limit?   Just because the WS might shut him down doesn’t mean another team has to do the same thing as long as Crochet is on board.

I have a feeling there are plenty of TJ pitchers who pitched a full season in their first year back.   I can also find plenty of non TJ guys who went from very few innings one year to a full load the next year.  
 

In short, nothing is written in stone with regards to pitchers.

It’s a big enough question mark to not pay a premium for him, in my opinion. Especially given the recent history of what the WS have been asking for for their various assets. 

[Fiver6565]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t understand why anyone would want to give up high end assets for Crochet. 

Exactly.