I sort of don't get Elias's plan

[OnlyOneOriole]

18 minutes ago, The Goob said:

Like he did when he traded Ortiz and Hall for Burnes.  I am all for trading for more pitching but give it a break man.  What available pitcher do you think is worth trading any of the "precious draft picks" - Holliday, Mayo or Basallo? or for that matter even Kjerstad, Stowers or Norby?  Maybe you want to trade Gunnar, Adley, Westburg and Cowser since they were also once precious draft picks?

My first 2 choices to trade would be Holliday and Heston of the guys who really haven't played on the Os much yet. 

I think you could get almost whatever you want for Holliday (big time starter) and add in a couple of pieces with Heston and get 2 really good relievers.    And before you ask me who?  We have all seen the names on here but guys on other teams are really not by forte.  I will leave that to the experts. 

Anyway.....

Bingo, your pitching staff is much better.  You can win a WS this year and have pitching for next year.  All without hurting the team this year and maybe not even next.

BTW in this scenario I resign Santa in place of Heston.

[The Goob]

1 minute ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

My first 2 choices to trade would be Holliday and Heston of the guys who really haven't played on the Os much yet. 

I think you could get almost whatever you want for Holliday (big time starter) and add in a couple of pieces with Heston and get 2 really good relievers.    And before you ask me who?  We have all seen the names on here but guys on other teams are really not by forte.  I will leave that to the experts. 

Anyway.....

Bingo, your pitching staff is much better.  You can win a WS this year and have pitching for next year.  All without hurting the team this year and maybe not even next.

BTW in this scenario I resign Santa in place of Heston.

This is crazy talk.  The only pitchers I would trade Holliday for are Zack Wheeler, Tarik Skubal, Ranger Suarez, Logan Gilbert, Cole Ragans, Luis Castillo, Seth Lugo, Tanner Houck and Paul Skenes.  I am sure I have missed a few but you get the point.  None of those guys will be available at the deadline.

[OnlyOneOriole]

18 minutes ago, The Goob said:

This is crazy talk.  The only pitchers I would trade Holliday for are Zack Wheeler, Tarik Skubal, Ranger Suarez, Logan Gilbert, Cole Ragans, Luis Castillo, Seth Lugo, Tanner Houck and Paul Skenes.  I am sure I have missed a few but you get the point.  None of those guys will be available at the deadline.

You never know.  Dangle a JH out there and you just might get a bite.

[RZNJ]

4 hours ago, Philip said:

Who are the Os top three? Burnes, GRod, and…….?

Exactly.  Who is on first.

[LookitsPuck]

1 hour ago, The Goob said:

Like he did when he traded Ortiz and Hall for Burnes.  I am all for trading for more pitching but give it a break man.  What available pitcher do you think is worth trading any of the "precious draft picks" - Holliday, Mayo or Basallo? or for that matter even Kjerstad, Stowers or Norby?  Maybe you want to trade Gunnar, Adley, Westburg and Cowser since they were also once precious draft picks?

Traded for Bradish, traded for Irvin, traded for Burnes, traded for Flaherty, list can go on.

[Safelykept]

5 hours ago, interloper said:

I agree with the OP. Elias seems to have wildly miscalculated his bullpen and overall pitching staff. Bradish and Means should not have been factored into the equation at all given their injuries, and counting on Wells was suspect as well. 

He didn't find this year's Danny Coulombe or Cano. No magical waiver claims or trade finds to speak of this year. 

Way too much reliance on guys like Perez and Webb, and even Cano, who he should have figured would regress. 

Just a lack of action with regards to the pitching. He made two pitching moves in the offseason and 0 that have worked out  so far during the season (the various waiver claims and minor league deals). 

What are we doing here exactly? 

Not sure what he miscalculated. Bradish Possibly . Being able to see Means 2nd TJ that soon Wells Coulombe and Kremer been gone 6 weeks, its called injuries, I mean you do realize their one more injury away from being in a real jackpot. Hopefully they can get dean and Danny back stay healthy and add a piece or two at the deadline and guys step up. Youre not going to replace Bradish and Buatista at the deadline

 

[btdart20]

7 hours ago, gtman55 said:

Very good point. Does anyone here have any intel on any of the pitching prospects down there?

I don't know if anyone responded to you or not, but there's a whole board here with minor league chat.  Tony and his scouting background/connections provides awesome info.

[Satyr3206]

I don't think there was much wrong with the plan. Hard to predict injuries.

[gtman55]

I'll probably get jumped on for this but I don't understand bringing up guys like Stowers and Kierstad and not giving them a chance to be "more or less" everyday players. How is riding the bench helping these guys develop? I never felt like they gave Stowers a fair chance this year. I mean these guys are young and used to playing every day. Bringing them up here to only pinch hit or play sporadically doesn't make sense to me.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, gtman55 said:

I'll probably get jumped on for this but I don't understand bringing up guys like Stowers and Kierstad and not giving them a chance to be "more or less" everyday players. How is riding the bench helping these guys develop? I never felt like they gave Stowers a fair chance this year. I mean these guys are young and used to playing every day. Bringing them up here to only pinch hit or play sporadically doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think Elias views them as "everyday players". 

[Allan Bryant]

8 hours ago, clapdiddy said:

I don't doubt his stuff.   I doubt his command.  

I knew there was a reason why they picked him up for free

[Philip]

2 hours ago, bpilktree67 said:

Kimbrel was a 1 year deal and Burns has 1 year on his deal.   It has been pretty clear that Angelos didn't want any deals on the books for a longer period.  When is the last multi year deal with we have offered a player or even traded for in the last 8 years?  I honestly couldn't tell you.  

I understand, and I agree with you to a point, but the Burnes trade happened right about the time of ownership transfer, so was a probably exception to any parameters.

Even within those parameters Mike only did what he did, and since Rubenstein took over, he hasn’t done anything else, despite having quite valuable trade pieces.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

You never know.  Dangle a JH out there and you just might get a bite.

I certainly would.

I am pretty sure that nobody is untouchable.

[Philip]

53 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think Elias views them as "everyday players". 

Do other teams, though?

[foxfield]

6 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Why do so many posters point to the 23' Texas Rangers as though they are some kind of rule and not an exception? We all know they weren't the best team and got lucky/hot at the right time.

Is that the kind of model that we should be looking to build on/copycat?repeat?

 Cause it’s easier than saying the Dodgers Braves Orioles and Phillies were all better than Texas it just didn’t work out that way in the playoffs.