Is Matt Wieters >Adley?

[joelala]

He’s never been a terribly explosive athlete, but movement-wise he looks likes he’s aged 8-10 years in the second half. This makes me think he has to be dealing with a core injury. I just really hope it’s not something like an issue with the discs in his lower back that permanently alters his career. 

[joelala]

2 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

My hypothesis is that he sustained nerve damage to his right hand on that June 27th foul tip.  As long as it’s not a Ryan Braun-type situation, I’m hopeful that the second half this year will just be an anomaly. 

What was the foul tip? I don’t remember

[Sports Guy]

Just now, joelala said:

What was the foul tip? I don’t remember

Got hit in the hand in late June…has been bad since. That is one theory.

He missed the game because of his back, so some assume that’s the issue…but we don’t have any evidence (injury wise) that it was more than a short term issue.

It’s hard for me to believe that he could be this bad for this long without an injury. The “normal wear and tear” for a catcher isn’t something I buy either. Had he just had a bad September and caught 130 games, I could buy that but that’s is obviously not the case.

[joelala]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Got hit in the hand in late June…has been bad since. That is one theory.

He missed the game because of his back, so some assume that’s the issue…but we don’t have any evidence (injury wise) that it was more than a short term issue.

It’s hard for me to believe that he could be this bad for this long without an injury. The “normal wear and tear” for a catcher isn’t something I buy either. Had he just had a bad September and caught 130 games, I could buy that but that’s is obviously not the case.

Ah ok. Yea I think it’s gotta be something. I wonder if there’s a way to see first half avg bat speed vs. second half. Can’t compare his 14th percentile bat speed this season to season’s past cuz it’s a new metric this year. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Why is that silly?  You don’t think off field distractions happen to athletes?

It’s one thing to have a slump. It’s another thing to be bad for a while because of injury.

But if he is just bad for this long, with no reason behind it, it’s entirely fair to say that there are things outside the lines that are bothering or distracting him.

A relationship can obviously be one of those things.

I don't think Adley's up there at the plate and having terrible at bats because he's thinking about his girlfriend.  

I think the whole Instagram video of him and his girlfriend was stupid and I'm not sure if that's something they're doing on the regular.  But also, I'm not about to critique a player for how they spend their time (aside from saying it was stupid) off the field.  I mean, he can make Instagram reels all day long after games with his girlfriend if he wants to, I really don't care.  The same way that Cowser and Gunnar are playing with Legos or guys play video games, whatever.  These are guys in their mid 20s with a decent amount of time on their hands when they're not at the ballpark, they're going to find things to do including playing with Legos and hanging out with girls.

It's a silly take because we can't extol the virtues ("he's a great leader!  he's not the MVP of the team, but he's arguably their most indispensable player!) of Adley and then turn right around and wonder if he's distracted by a girlfriend which would be essentially calling him a mental midget right after saying he's a great leader.  If you're saying he's a great leader one minute but then saying he could be distracted by a girlfriend then he was probably not a great leader to begin with.  

Blaming the woman is a borderline conspiracy theory.  It's based on emotion, not facts.  It's based on uncertainty, fear (in this case, how could our franchise catcher be so bad all of a sudden if he's not hurt?!?!) and trying to prescribe a reason for the uncertainty.

The good news for your argument is that there's no way to disprove it.  On the flip side of that coin, there's no way to prove it, either.  So the misinformation that you're bringing up about Adley's girlfriend causing his .179 batting average since June can never be falsified in your view but I can also call it silly.  

 

[rudyrooster]

Something has gone terribly wrong with Adley.  Injury?  I don't know.  What I do know is he looks like a shell of his former self.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think Adley's up there at the plate and having terrible at bats because he's thinking about his girlfriend.  

I think the whole Instagram video of him and his girlfriend was stupid and I'm not sure if that's something they're doing on the regular.  But also, I'm not about to critique a player for how they spend their time (aside from saying it was stupid) off the field.  I mean, he can make Instagram reels all day long after games with his girlfriend if he wants to, I really don't care.  The same way that Cowser and Gunnar are playing with Legos or guys play video games, whatever.  These are guys in their mid 20s with a decent amount of time on their hands when they're not at the ballpark, they're going to find things to do including playing with Legos and hanging out with girls.

It's a silly take because we can't extol the virtues ("he's a great leader!  he's not the MVP of the team, but he's arguably their most indispensable player!) of Adley and then turn right around and wonder if he's distracted by a girlfriend which would be essentially calling him a mental midget right after saying he's a great leader.  If you're saying he's a great leader one minute but then saying he could be distracted by a girlfriend then he was probably not a great leader to begin with.  

Blaming the woman is a borderline conspiracy theory.  It's based on emotion, not facts.  It's based on uncertainty, fear (in this case, how could our franchise catcher be so bad all of a sudden if he's not hurt?!?!) and trying to prescribe a reason for the uncertainty.

The good news for your argument is that there's no way to disprove it.  On the flip side of that coin, there's no way to prove it, either.  So the misinformation that you're bringing up about Adley's girlfriend causing his .179 batting average since June can never be falsified in your view but I can also call it silly.  

 

You are really missing the point.

It has nothing to do with him being up at the plate thinking of her.

It’s off field stuff..is he working out as much? Is he watching tape as much? Is he working on his approach enough? 
 

In other words, is the preparation where it should be because of the new distraction.

Sorry but this stuff happens all the time. Players have off field issues, good or bad, that affect them on the field. 
 

And I’m not even saying this is definitely the case. But if he is healthy and has just been bad for this long, there are issues at hand. Unless you think he just went from being really good to washed up in a week, it’s fair to look at all things and a newer relationship off the field is absolutely one of the things you would look at as at least a possibility of why things aren’t where we want them to be.

 

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You are really missing the point.

It has nothing to do with him being up at the plate thinking of her.

It’s off field stuff..is he working out as much? Is he watching tape as much? Is he working on his approach enough? 
 

In other words, is the preparation where it should be because of the new distraction.

Sorry but this stuff happens all the time. Players have off field issues, good or bad, that affect them on the field. 
 

And I’m not even saying this is definitely the case. But if he is healthy and has just been bad for this long, there are issues at hand. Unless you think he just went from being really good to washed up in a week, it’s fair to look at all things and a newer relationship off the field is absolutely one of the things you would look at as at least a possibility of why things aren’t where we want them to be.

 

No, I'm not missing the point. I really kind of addressed it when I said he can do what he wants in his free time and we're allowed to say things like Instagram videos with his girlfriends are stupid.  

Asking questions isn't proving points, or making points.  Like I said, it's borderline conspiracy theory...trying to find reasoning when reasoning isn't readily visible.  That's why we're upset here, because he's suddenly gone off a cliff and we're searching for answers because there's no obvious injury, right?

But like I said, we can't call him a good leader and extol all his virtues and then turn right around and wonder if he's easily distracted.  It's either one or the other...and we've been praising him about his leadership qualities ever since he came up.  And now we want to wonder if he's distracted?  By a girl?

I know you're not saying it's definitely the case, but I think it's silly that anyone would suggest a girlfriend is the possible reason he's not working as hard and he's not watching as much tape (I'm addressing your point here, to be clear) and he's not the leader he once was and the reason why he's lost .100 points in OPS from '23. 

IMO, he looks out of shape.  He looks like he's gained weight.  Kind of hard to tell if that's good weight or bad weight, but he just doesn't look the same.

That said, weight gain doesn't explain why his plate approach has gone to ****.  A girlfriend doesn't explain that, either.

[Ceciltrav]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Questioning whether or not the new GF is a distraction is one of your sillier takes, SG.

 

 

I believe his hand is bothering him.  He's hurt.  He's out of shape.  I thought that a few times this year.  The GF can be a distraction at times.  It isn't as crazy as you think.  I believe Adley will bounce back next year.

[DirtyBird]

Wieters was a better draft pick

[baltfan]

When it comes to Wieters, he was never the same after UCL repair.  If you are talking pre- UCL repair Wieters it is definitely closer as he was an excellent defender.

[spiritof66]

Comparisons that are based on projecting Adley's highly uncertain (to me) future don't interest me. 

I'm more interested in whether, in this season's remaining games (or today's game, which may be the same thing), Adley should start at catcher and whether, if he's not the starting C, he should DH, creating a large obstacle with pinch-hitting or pinch-running for McCann until very late in a game (and even then the DH spot could be lost during extra innings). To me, the answers are (a) yes he's the regular C unless he's injured and can't play, at least until the end of the K.C. series, and (b) Adley should not DH without a third catcher on the roster. 

[jmi1960]

“Women Weaken Legs”

Mickey Goldmill. 
 

[Moose Milligan]

13 minutes ago, Ceciltrav said:

I believe his hand is bothering him.  He's hurt.  He's out of shape.  I thought that a few times this year.  The GF can be a distraction at times.  It isn't as crazy as you think.  I believe Adley will bounce back next year.

Yeah, I think blaming the woman is silly.  Unless someone's going through a messy, public divorce I'm not buying that as a factor.  You guys have watched Rocky too much and have taken Mickey's advice to heart.

Hand bothering him, hurt, out of shape...all better possibilities.  Yet none explain why his approach at the plate have gone off the cliff.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I really, really, really hope at the end of the season we hear that he was playing hurt for the second half. It's not just his offense, but his defense has seriously declined as well. If he's been healthy, then Basallo may take over faster than we thought. He and Gunnar both started the all star game and haven't been the same since. Gunnar was on route to an MVP caliber season, and then just fell off a cliff.