A debate that should be interesting???

[ShaneDawg85]

Honestly, I don't see either as a very good comp for Nick. Molitor hit 20 HRs exactly once and never had 100 BBs in a year. He didn't even top 70 until he was 31. Their profiles are radically different.

Gwynn never walked 100 times (and had over 80 BBs only once) and never hit 20 HRs. Gwynn's production was driven by lofty BAs.

Gwynn was - essentially - Ichiro before Ichiro (but arguably better [as a hitter]). Not Markakis-like at all.

If you want comps, I'd think somewhere between Al Kaline and Stan Musial is what we should be hoping for.

With a likelihood that he ends up, instead, as good or better than Paul O'Neill (circa 1993-1998).

I agree that Kaline is a good comparison. Musial is good comparison in terms of on base percentage and walks, as Musial did reach 100 walks in a season three times. If Nick can continue to develop his power numbers then I can say with certainty that he's on his way to reaching Musial type levels.

[LookinUp]

Well, I'm not convinced, but I am defeated. Good discussion gents.

[Lucky Jim]

I'd like to hunt down and kill whoever it was who first suggested that Paul O'Neill was a good comp for Nick.

- Nick already has hit more doubles in a season than O'Neill ever did -- twice.

- Nick already has three full seasons under his belt at age 25. O'Neill had 193 AB by that age.

- Nick has 2 20-HR seasons already. O'Neill had his first at age 28 and had only 7 in his career.

- Nick has played 155+ games two years in a row. O'Neill never topped 152 and reached 150 only 4 times.

- O'Neill never had an OPS over .830 until he was 30 years old. Nick has done this twice.

I liked O'Neill but there is no comparison at all.

Did you see that I said from 1993-1998? Or did you ignore it?

Are you getting lazy in your old age there, Frobby?

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards  1993 30 NYY AL 141 547 498 71 155 34 1 20 75 2 4 44 69 .311 .367 .504 .871 136 251 13 2 0 3 5 *97/D  1994 31 NYY AL 103 443 368 68 132 25 1 21 83 5 4 72 56 .359 .460 .603 1.064 176 222 16 0 0 3 13 *97/D MVP-5 1995 32 NYY AL 127 543 460 82 138 30 4 22 96 1 2 71 76 .300 .387 .526 .913 137 242 25 1 0 11 8 *97/D MVP-15 1996 33 NYY AL 150 660 546 89 165 35 1 19 91 0 1 102 76 .302 .411 .474 .885 123 259 21 4 0 8 8 *9/D3  1997 34 NYY AL 149 637 553 89 179 42 0 21 117 10 7 75 92 .324 .399 .514 .912 137 284 16 0 0 9 8 *9/3D MVP-12 1998 35 NYY AL 152 672 602 95 191 40 2 24 116 15 1 57 103 .317 .372 .510 .882 130 307 22 2 0 11 2 *9/D MVP-12 

You wouldn't take that kind of production from Nick? If not, then you're star-struck and irrational.

[RShack]

Did you see that I said from 1993-1998? Or did you ignore it?

Are you getting lazy in your old age there, Frobby?

Well, with your help, it looks like the "hunting down" part of Frobby's agenda has been accomplished.

Now that he's got you, let's see what he does with you ;-)

He'll probably play nice. That's my guess.

[Owen21]

Having watching every game the O's have played this season and most of the last several seasons I found myself asking myself this last night. As an offensive player who is going to be better. Adam Jones or Nick? I am extremely high on Nick, some say even irrationally so. I think he will be, Barring significant injury, a HOFer. I never really thought of Adam at this level but man he is simply outperformed what I thought was possible and has really not looked like he is playing way over his head doing it. He is having consistent great ABs and is punishing mistakes. Pitchers will have to adjust and the proof will be in Adam's ability to adjust with them. What does everyone think?

BTW with Wieters joining in later this season how exciting is it to have the possibility of have 3 legit super star guys in thier prime?

Fun time to be an O's fan.

I think Nick could blossom into the closest thing to a "Ted Williams type player" that we've ever had. I'm probably gonna get some flack, but I feel Nick could flirt with .400 at some point in his career.

[Old#5fan]

Because "his" logic was that Jones is better because he hit a longer HR than Nick did.

That is a blatant mis-interpretation of what I posted. I never said that. Maybe you should try learning basic elementary reading comprehension before making false leaps such as this? In other words you are lying above period.

[Lucky Jim]

In other words you are lying above period.

It's always better than lying below a period.

[Old#5fan]

That's cool. But just for argument's sake, which player do you think is better?

Player A hits .310, has an on base percentage of .400, hits 50 doubles and 25 homers.

Player B hits .285, has an on base percentage of .350, hits 40 doubles and 35 homers.

We will leave defense out of it.

I would need to know their rbi totals before deciding and also how they hit with RISP.

[Sports Guy]

That is a blatant mis-interpretation of what I posted. I never said that. Maybe you should learning basic elementary reading comprehension before making false leaps such as this? In other words you are lying above period.

You definitely implied it.

[Flosman]

:wedge:

It's always better than lying below a period.

Depends on who your lying with.:wedge:

I am sorry for making such a comment in such a fine upstanding online community. I could not help myself.

[Old#5fan]

He forgot that one.

New saw it. Probably he hit it in a blow out loss after I had quit watching maybe.

[Frobby]

Did you see that I said from 1993-1998? Or did you ignore it?

Are you getting lazy in your old age there, Frobby?

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards  1993 30 NYY AL 141 547 498 71 155 34 1 20 75 2 4 44 69 .311 .367 .504 .871 136 251 13 2 0 3 5 *97/D  1994 31 NYY AL 103 443 368 68 132 25 1 21 83 5 4 72 56 .359 .460 .603 1.064 176 222 16 0 0 3 13 *97/D MVP-5 1995 32 NYY AL 127 543 460 82 138 30 4 22 96 1 2 71 76 .300 .387 .526 .913 137 242 25 1 0 11 8 *97/D MVP-15 1996 33 NYY AL 150 660 546 89 165 35 1 19 91 0 1 102 76 .302 .411 .474 .885 123 259 21 4 0 8 8 *9/D3  1997 34 NYY AL 149 637 553 89 179 42 0 21 117 10 7 75 92 .324 .399 .514 .912 137 284 16 0 0 9 8 *9/3D MVP-12 1998 35 NYY AL 152 672 602 95 191 40 2 24 116 15 1 57 103 .317 .372 .510 .882 130 307 22 2 0 11 2 *9/D MVP-12 

You wouldn't take that kind of production from Nick? If not, then you're star-struck and irrational.

To be honest, I really hadn't noticed that qualifier. Even so, Nick's already pretty much at the level O'Neill was in that 6-year span, so I expect him to surpass it (except maybe that strike-interrupted 1994 season).

[napbow]

That is a blatant mis-interpretation of what I posted. I never said that. Maybe you should learning basic elementary reading comprehension before making false leaps such as this? In other words you are lying above period.

Ummm, yeah.

[Old#5fan]

You definitely implied it.

I sure don't think so.

[Old#5fan]

Ummm, yeah.

Oh, someone else who cannot read and comprehend or else practices isolating a post and reading into it only what they want to see?

Maybe if you had read the subsequent post I wrote where I explained why I liked Jones' better you wouldn't be so off base in making such comments?