Sun: A big relief for Salazar

[HoodGuy007]

So you'd project a better future for Oscar if we'd acquired him in a different manner?

It would be no different than if we picked up Terrero today...

[Anonymous]

It would be no different than if we picked up Terrero today...

Huh??? Waz that mean, my friend?

[HoodGuy007]

I'm happy to engage in repartee with you, HG, even though my question was indeed directed toward sangar.

You've raised the bar on Oscar. First you indicated that we can discard him without regret because hitters like him are a dime a dozen. Now you're criticizing him because his defense is worse than that of Scott, Huff, and Wiggy. I disagreed with your first point. I agree with your second. But it's an unfair debate strategy to do this bait and switch.

As for the comparison with Scott, Huff, and Wiggy, they do have different strengths and weaknesses. On the basis of what he's done the past 2.5 years, I think Oscar can be projected for 2010 to hit RH pitching better than Wiggy (and LH pitching no worse), to hit LH pitching better than Huff (and RH pitching no worse), to run the bases better than Huff, and to be massively cheaper than each of these guys. That's why I like Oscar at DH. I won't compare him against Luke Scott, whom I envision as our 1B for next year, and thus a complement to Oscar rather than a roster or playing time competitor.

On what basis other than speed (including some ability to play CF) do you conclude that Terrero is a better defender than Salazar? Based on reports that I've seen on this board, he's worse. And as for his offense, are you really claiming that his OPS matches up with what Oscar has done for the past 2.5 seasons? I find that hard to believe. In this case, there really IS a good reason why Luis has been banished to the Mexican League.

I like Fio a lot as minor league depth and emergency CF fill-in (e.g., if Adam has a month-long DL stint, Jeff is the obvious roster replacement). But again, I ask whether you seriously claim that his OPS matches what Oscar has done for the past 2.5 seasons at both the minor and major league levels.

It's widely reported that Salazar is only valuable as a DH because he is Cust-esque with the glove... if Terrero is any better, it is a value. Again, for joning on Luis for being in the Mexican League, you are singing the praises of Oscar "I played in the Mexican League 4 years ago" Salazar.

My entire argument for why we won't miss him is value. I'm giving a comparison to the other Hangout favorites of the past few years... players who have had replacement level gloves with supposedly bigger sticks that just needed a chance. They never were, and now some languish in the Mexican League while others are trying to still rough it out in the minors and still have't been given that chance that some felt they deserved.

As far as Fio goes, he is a lifetime .882 OPS, which, besides this uptick from Oscar just this year, is as good as or much better than anything Oscar had done since 1998. Oscar OPS lifetime is just .818. Is it possible he has found his superstar swing after stewing in the minors for 14 years? Maybe... but realistically, he's going to come back to earth and again be another dime a dozen player that can be found on the waiver wire and just about every AAA roster.

[HoodGuy007]

I'm happy to engage in repartee with you, HG, even though my question was indeed directed toward sangar.

You've raised the bar on Oscar. First you indicated that we can discard him without regret because hitters like him are a dime a dozen. Now you're criticizing him because his defense is worse than that of Scott, Huff, and Wiggy. I disagreed with your first point. I agree with your second. But it's an unfair debate strategy to do this bait and switch.

As for the comparison with Scott, Huff, and Wiggy, they do have different strengths and weaknesses. On the basis of what he's done the past 2.5 years, I think Oscar can be projected for 2010 to hit RH pitching better than Wiggy (and LH pitching no worse), to hit LH pitching better than Huff (and RH pitching no worse), to run the bases better than Huff, and to be massively cheaper than each of these guys. That's why I like Oscar at DH. I won't compare him against Luke Scott, whom I envision as our 1B for next year, and thus a complement to Oscar rather than a roster or playing time competitor.

On what basis other than speed (including some ability to play CF) do you conclude that Terrero is a better defender than Salazar? Based on reports that I've seen on this board, he's worse. And as for his offense, are you really claiming that his OPS matches up with what Oscar has done for the past 2.5 seasons? I find that hard to believe. In this case, there really IS a good reason why Luis has been banished to the Mexican League.

I like Fio a lot as minor league depth and emergency CF fill-in (e.g., if Adam has a month-long DL stint, Jeff is the obvious roster replacement). But again, I ask whether you seriously claim that his OPS matches what Oscar has done for the past 2.5 seasons at both the minor and major league levels.

It's widely reported that Salazar is only valuable as a DH because he is Cust-esque with the glove... if Terrero is any better, it is a value. Again, for joning on Luis for being in the Mexican League, you are singing the praises of Oscar "I played in the Mexican League 4 years ago" Salazar.

My entire argument for why we won't miss him is value. I'm giving a comparison to the other Hangout favorites of the past few years... players who have had replacement level gloves with supposedly bigger sticks that just needed a chance. They never were, and now some languish in the Mexican League while others are trying to still rough it out in the minors and still have't been given that chance that some felt they deserved.

As far as Fio goes, he is a lifetime .882 OPS, which, besides this uptick from Oscar just this year, is as good as or much better than anything Oscar had done since 1998. Oscar OPS lifetime is just .818. Is it possible he has found his superstar swing after stewing in the minors for 14 years? Maybe... but realistically, he's going to come back to earth and again be another dime a dozen player that can be found on the waiver wire and just about every AAA roster. Again, in summation, has Oscar been good? Absolutely, and I thank him for that. However, before we start throwing out comparisons like David Ortiz, let's remember that we do this every year. Fio, Terrero, House, Knott, Cust, and they keep adding up. He has gotten progressively better over the past two seasons, and that is why he is with the big club. Unfortunately, unless we trade Huff, Izzy, Wiggy, Pie, or release Mora, he is going to be DFA'd.

[Anonymous]

It's widely reported that Salazar is only valuable as a DH because he is Cust-esque with the glove... if Terrero is any better, it is a value.

Based on the reports I've seen on here, he's not better defensively. Terrero's worse.

Again, for joning on Luis for being in the Mexican League, you are singing the praises of Oscar "I played in the Mexican League 4 years ago" Salazar.

This is unfair. You know that I haven't done this.

As far as Fio goes, he is a lifetime .882 OPS, which, besides this uptick from Oscar just this year, is as good as or much better than anything Oscar had done since 1998..

This is untrue and misleading.

First, it's irrelevant to compare Oscar's OPS against AA, AAA, and major league competition against Fio's OPS against lower-level minor league pitching.

Second, Oscar has not merely had an uptick above an 882 OPS vs. low A and below, high A, AA, and AAA this year. Salazar's OPS was 1026 in 199 AAA ABs, which he has followed with a 914 OPS in 28 major league ABs.

Oscar OPS lifetime is just .818. Is it possible he has found his superstar swing after stewing in the minors for 14 years? Maybe... but realistically, he's going to come back to earth and again be another dime a dozen player that can be found on the waiver wire and just about every AAA roster.

I was a pretty good hitter when I was 10 years old. That's just as relevant in projecting my future performance as what Oscar did early in his career.

Other than Drungo-style intellectual laziness on this issue, what empirical or anecdotal evidence is there that Oscar's performance in the 1990s adds any improvement to our dataset for projecting his future performance versus what's available to us during the 2.5 seasons since he's returned to organized baseball in 2007? There is a sufficient sample size of ABs during those 2.5 seasons to truncate the dataset at the point, which represented a major junction point in Oscar's career and life.

BTW, you keep throwing around one metaphor after another in order to demonstrate your disdain for Oscar's track record. Please stick to material that can be discussed in an objective manner, as it's hard for me to respond to such emotionally charged, but substantively empty, comments. (I'm not intending to be rude. But how do I respond????)

[QSII]

I predict an Ortiz like career for Oscar. Just as soon as he's bracketed by Veritek and Manny Ramirez in the batting order.

[Tx Oriole]

This is an article from the Sun talking about Salazar being hyper-nervous about being on the bubble the day of the return of Cesar Izturis. No new info here but I thought it was a good read, and a little insight on Oscar personally.

I feel bad that Salazar has to be the guy constantly worried that he's being shipped out of town (or released, as he's out of options). He's done nothing through his inspired play this season to deserve it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.osnotes13jul13,0,3471390.story

He is a bench player. They are a dime a dozen. I really don't beleive he will or does hit enough to stay in Baltimore. It is a shame it will come down to him or Pie though.

[wildcard]

At this point I don't see Salazar being traded.

MacPhail is looking for at least equal value for one of Salazar, Pie, or Wiggy. He probably is not going to find it because the other GMs probably see him in a pinch.

MacPhail is looking for more then equal value for Huff. He is probably not going to find anything to his liking there either.

I think a trade to make a roster adjustment could happen.

1) the O's decide to go with 11 pitchers for a while. Mickolio gets sent down.

2) Reimold is optioned until there is an injury. Luke and Pie plays more left. Salazar plays more DH.

None of the choices are great ones but I don't see MacPhail making a trade for a lesser talent or waiving a player just because there is a roster crunch.

Terrero was differ from Salazar because Terrero needed regular playing time to hit is the majors. He wasn't good enough to earn a starting spot thus he was not valuable on the bench. Salazar is.

Fiorentino progress stalled at AA. He had several years of production at that level that did not warrant a promotion. Now at 26 he is hitting AAA righthanded pitching. Still can't hit lefties. He might make the majors as a utility OF but he is past the time that he will be considered a prospect for a starting job.

[Tx Oriole]

Moving. I'm sure you make a great boss.

Maybe it is hard but it is the truth. Gee. what do you want? Keep him around even if he doesn't deserve to stay in Baltimore? They are what they are. Oscar and Felix are bench players. Felix is younger and can paly the OF good enough to be the fourth OF. Oscar plays the IF good enough to be a backup. But neither hits good. These two are not kiddies. Thye know their time in MLB is limited. And they know they can only do so much. Thye are valuable to the O's as bench players but are easy to replace.

[Frobby]

I feel like Salazar is being simultaneously underrated and overrated in this thread. First, he has done way more with his opportunity than guys like Terrero, Knott and House. He has hit well and come through in key situations for two years whenever given the chance, and has crushed AAA and Venezuelan League pitching whenever he hasn't been in the majors. At the same time, recognize that his fielding is subpar and he probably wouldn't have the power to be a full time DH. Really, he's the modern day Benny Ayala, good for a spot start here and there and a lot of pinch hitting.

Easily replaceable? I don't think so. These guys aren't that easy to find. There are always a few around but you might burn through 5 guys in 3 years trying to find one. So I wouldn't want to give him up so easily.

The more I think of it, the more I think Andino is the one who is easily replaceable. But I doubt the O's will see it that way.

[Tx Oriole]

Any body who can hit ML pitching as well as Oscar is a lot more than canon fodder. I think if someone had the brains to make him a DH, he could be an impact player on a number of teams. To bad the O's lack the brains to see that. We will have a big problem replacing him, have you noticed the way this team hits?

You really think so Gordo? You beleive he would hit good enough to be the DH?

[Tx Oriole]

Minnesota probably said the same thing about Ortiz.

1 year/$0.95M (2002)

avoided arbitration with Minnesota 2/02 ($1.395M-$0.75M)

non-tendered by Minnesota 12/02

Come on now Gordo. Oscar is a good guy but he will never be able to hit like Ortiz. Is that waht you are saying? Maybe it is too early and I am not reading you right.

[Tx Oriole]

Friendly inquiry ... why do you believe that Oscar is merely a capable bench player rather than a starting-quality-level DH (at minimum), as I see him?

Come on now. The dude doesn't hit enough to be a DH. He is a backup player. I am sorry, but that is what he is. So is Felix. Thye might be very nice folks. But they are backups. Holy Cats. DH for Oscar. Sorry, I don't see that happening.

[Anonymous]

Maybe it is hard but it is the truth. Gee. what do you want? Keep him around even if he doesn't deserve to stay in Baltimore? They are what they are. Oscar and Felix are bench players. Felix is younger and can paly the OF good enough to be the fourth OF. Oscar plays the IF good enough to be a backup. But neither hits good. These two are not kiddies. Thye know their time in MLB is limited. And they know they can only do so much. Thye are valuable to the O's as bench players but are easy to replace.

The anti-Oscar stuff is getting downright JTreaish in its mind-numbing repetition of untruths (although JTrea, ironically, happens to get it with Oscar). Why do you feel compelled to assert that Oscar doesn't hit well, when this is clearly not the case? (See my prior post on his OPS for 2008 and 2009.)

On the flip side, why do you make a statement that Oscar plays the IF well enough to be a backup? That statement gives him too much credit on the defensive end, as he is no better than an an emergency option at any position other than catcher and CF (with RF perhaps his best position, from what I can gather). I have no problem conceding Oscar's weaknesses. But why must you fudge so egregiously in covering up his strengths?

[Dr. FLK]

I'm sure Oscar is a nice guy and he is certainly a capable bench player but when all is done and said he is cannon fodder and if he is released then he has served his purpose and deserves nothing more than a "job well done". He will have no problem finding work elsewhere and we will have no problem replacing him.

How true. I mean, look at all the luck the Os have had in the past several years finding legit bench players who can hit, play multiple positions, and start if needed. They are virtually a dime a dozen...