Jones the last 16 games: .328/.359/.492

[ShaneDawg85]

I still don't understand why you cannot fathom that getting on base is a good thing.

Funny he brings up Powell, considering the year he won MVP in 1970 he walked 104 times and had a .412 OBP.

[makoman]

Here was a guy who was a great "walker" for the Orioles and who thankfully was replaced by Boog Powell as he was such a weak hitting first baseman it caused them to convert Powell from a left fielder and the rest is history:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/siebeno01.shtml

In 1962 he had 110 walks and as an Oriole in 1964 106. This guy would have been a much better number two hitter just like Markakis than what he was supposed to be (a cleanup power hitting first baseman). In short- he sucked).

Unbelieveably they had traded one of their best slugging first baseman of all time - Jim Gentile for him. Just goes to show you a great "walker" doesn't always equate to a great "hitter."

But that guy was a gold glover and 3 time all star. He must have been awesome!

[Frobby]

Here was a guy who was a great "walker" for the Orioles and who thankfully was replaced by Boog Powell as he was such a weak hitting first baseman it caused them to convert Powell from a left fielder and the rest is history:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/siebeno01.shtml

In 1962 he had 110 walks and as an Oriole in 1964 106. This guy would have been a much better number two hitter just like Markakis than what he was supposed to be (a cleanup power hitting first baseman). In short- he sucked).

Unbelieveably they had traded one of their best slugging first baseman of all time - Jim Gentile for him. Just goes to show you a great "walker" doesn't always equate to a great "hitter."

I still don't understand why you cannot fathom that getting on base is a good thing.

Funny he brings up Powell, considering the year he won MVP in 1970 he walked 104 times and had a .412 OBP.

First of all, I want to congratulate Old#5Fan on actually doing some research and looking something up. I am not quite old enough to remember Norm Siebern. Looking at his numbers, I wouldn't say he was awful. He made the all-star team 3 times (including his first year in Baltimore) and got MVP votes 3 times, so somebody apparently thought he was pretty good.

If you think about it, Powell didn't "replace" Siebern, he merely moved positions. Frank Robinson to RF, Curt Blefary from RF to LF, Boog Powell from LF to 1B. So, in terms of the lineup, you replaced a decent player in Siebern with a Hall of Famer in Frank Robinson. In fact, Siebern was traded on December 2, 1965 for Dick Simpson, who a week later was one of the three players traded for Frank Robinson.

I hope it is clear to all concerned that Nick Markakis is a better hitter than Norm Siebern, and not as good as Frank Robinson.

[Old#5fan]

First of all, I want to congratulate Old#5Fan on actually doing some research and looking something up. I am not quite old enough to remember Norm Siebern. Looking at his numbers, I wouldn't say he was awful. He made the all-star team 3 times (including his first year in Baltimore) and got MVP votes 3 times, so somebody apparently thought he was pretty good.

If you think about it, Powell didn't "replace" Siebern, he merely moved positions. Frank Robinson to RF, Curt Blefary from RF to LF, Boog Powell from LF to 1B. So, in terms of the lineup, you replaced a decent player in Siebern with a Hall of Famer in Frank Robinson. In fact, Siebern was traded on December 2, 1965 for Dick Simpson, who a week later was one of the three players traded for Frank Robinson.

I hope it is clear to all concerned that Nick Markakis is a better hitter than Norm Siebern, and not as good as Frank Robinson.

Thanks for the compliment about looking things up, and I see your point but there is another way of looking at Sieburn which is what I was trying to point out and apparently not doing it very well.

What I was trying to point out is they traded a prototypical slugging first baseman in Jim Gentile for a non-typical higher OBP type of guy in Sieburn, which really did not help the team because he was not very suitable to be a cleanup hitter. He would though, have been suitable as a # two hitter.

The same situation occurs with Markakis with the only difference being he is highly suitable as a #2 hitter but not so much as a # 3 hitter. That is my point I was trying to make.

[Frobby]

Thanks for the compliment about looking things up, and I see your point but there is another way of looking at Sieburn which is what I was trying to point out and apparently not doing it very well.

What I was trying to point out is they traded a prototypical slugging first baseman in Jim Gentile for a non-typical higher OBP type of guy in Sieburn, which really did not help the team because he was not very suitable to be a cleanup hitter. He would though, have been suitable as a # two hitter.

The same situation occurs with Markakis with the only difference being he is highly suitable as a #2 hitter but not so much as a # 3 hitter. That is my point I was trying to make.

Thanks for clarifying. Gentile is another guy I never saw, but I will offer this observation: In Gentile's last year in Baltimore, the team scored 644 runs and won 86 games. The next year, after trading Gentile for Siebern, the O's scored 679 runs and won 97 games. I'm not claiming cause and effect here, but it certainly appears the trade didn't hurt the O's. And Gentile went downhill rather quickly.

As to Markakis, I agree he fits better at #2 than #3 if you had the right pieces in place elsewhere. Until Wieters, Jones and Reimold step up, though, you're going to continue to see a lot of Markakis at #3 because there are no better alternatives.

[Sports Guy]

Who else feels dumber after reading his stuff?

[Old#5fan]

Thanks for clarifying. Gentile is another guy I never saw, but I will offer this observation: In Gentile's last year in Baltimore, the team scored 644 runs and won 86 games. The next year, after trading Gentile for Siebern, the O's scored 679 runs and won 97 games. I'm not claiming cause and effect here, but it certainly appears the trade didn't hurt the O's. And Gentile went downhill rather quickly.

As to Markakis, I agree he fits better at #2 than #3 if you had the right pieces in place elsewhere. Until Wieters, Jones and Reimold step up, though, you're going to continue to see a lot of Markakis at #3 because there are no better alternatives.

True, but they still had to go out and get Frank Robinson which pushed them over the top and he no doubt helped the entire lineup much like Vlad would have helped this current Orioles team. Sieburn certainly didn't do that, and I agree Gentile went downhill after he was traded, not sure if there were some injury problems with him or what.

[ShaneDawg85]

True, but they still had to go out and get Frank Robinson which pushed them over the top and he no doubt helped the entire lineup much like Vlad would have helped this current Orioles team. Sieburn certainly didn't do that, and I agree Gentile went downhill after he was traded, not sure if there were some injury problems with him or what.

Yes, Vlad would have pushed this team into having 17 wins instead of 15. Last time I checked, the Orioles don't have Brooks Robinson & Boog Powell in the lineup, and they don't have Dave McNally, Wally Bunker, and Jim Palmer in the rotation. Maybe in the future they might, but right now they don't. Vlad would have been inconsequential to this team given the staggeringly bad performances of the majority of the lineup, so comparing him to Frank Robinson is almost as bad as you holding Nick Markakis to being Frank Robinson.

[Old#5fan]

Yes, Vlad would have pushed this team into having 17 wins instead of 15. Last time I checked, the Orioles don't have Brooks Robinson & Boog Powell in the lineup, and they don't have Dave McNally, Wally Bunker, and Jim Palmer in the rotation. Maybe in the future they might, but right now they don't. Vlad would have been inconsequential to this team given the staggeringly bad performances of the majority of the lineup, so comparing him to Frank Robinson is almost as bad as you holding Nick Markakis to being Frank Robinson.

Well, he is leading the AL in rbi with over 40 and if you think having a slugger of his talent in the heart of the lineup would not have helped the rest of the team (especially Markakis and some of the young guys like Wieters), and even the veterans like Wiggy, Miggy, and Scott, than you are simply wrong. I am not saying this either to be argumentative. Think about all the one run games we have lost, even just the large number of 4-3 games. Don't you think Vlad's 42 rbi potential would have had a great probability of changing the outcome of many more of those tight games than just TWO?

[Sports Guy]

Well, he is leading the AL in rbi with over 40 and if you think having a slugger of his talent in the heart of the lineup would not have helped the rest of the team (especially Markakis and some of the young guys like Wieters, and even the veterans like Wiggy, Miggy, and Scott, than you are simply wrong. I am not saying this either to be argumentative. Think about all the one run games we have lost, even just the large number of 4-3 games. Don't you think Vlad's 42 rbi potential would have had a great probability of changing the outcome of many more of those tight games than just TWO?

Yes, if Vlad was having the same season here as he is in Texas, we would probably be in better shape.

But since he wouldn't have come here unless you greatly overpaid him, I am not sure why you keep mentioning this.

You are also not paying attention to the fact that he plays in a hitters paradise and his numbers reflect that.

So, maybe if he was here, he wouldn't be producing at the same level.

You can keep ignoring these facts and that's fine but its why no one cares or respects your opinion..You choose to ignore obvious things and keep saying the same thing over and over again.

[byrdz]

Funny he brings up Powell, considering the year he won MVP in 1970 he walked 104 times and had a .412 OBP.

FYI, you could be the Red Baron and he still wouldn't realize that you shot down his argument.

[ShaneDawg85]

FYI, you could be the Red Baron and he still wouldn't realize that you shot down his argument.

Yeah, I know. Then the argument would deviate into how "clutch" those walks were. Oh wait, I forgot, there's nothing clutch about a walk.

[H0smash]

http://www.fangraphs.com/community/index.php/adam-jones-regression-at-the-plate/

I read this article on the fangraphs website about Jones. I was surprised to see that he is seeing more fastballs and less secondary pitches than past seasons. He's also swinging at less of the fastballs that are in the zone. He seems to be picking it up a bit, but I really hope he can improve his pitch recognition and his recognition of whether pitches are in the strikezone.

[Frobby]

True, but they still had to go out and get Frank Robinson which pushed them over the top and he no doubt helped the entire lineup much like Vlad would have helped this current Orioles team. Sieburn certainly didn't do that, and I agree Gentile went downhill after he was traded, not sure if there were some injury problems with him or what.

Frank was 30 when he was traded, and the O's were a contender that needed one big bat to put them over the top. Vlad is 35, has a bad back, and his numbers have been in steep decline the last 2 years. He wasn't going to put the O's over the top in any event. Even if he would have considered playing for us (which I doubt), he would not have made sense as a risk to take. And believe me, I wanted Vlad badly back in 2003-04 when he was a 29-year old free agent.

That said, I'm really glad Vlad is having an excellent year so far in Texas, and I hope he stays healthy. He is a fun player to watch.

[Old#5fan]

Funny he brings up Powell, considering the year he won MVP in 1970 he walked 104 times and had a .412 OBP.

He sure as hell didn't win the MVP for either of those very minor positive aspects. He won it for hitting the damn ball with force all year long as in home runs and rbi's, may of which were produced by his power and hitting with very few from his walking a runner in from third with the bases loaded!