Roch: Hitting Coach Terry Crowley is coming back

[JourneyFan]

I don't like this at all, but I guess I'm willing to give Crowley a full year with Buck as the manager to see what happens. Buck's definitely more detail-oriented than our last 3 managers (Samuel not included), so perhaps that'll be the difference maker. Of course, I could just be deluding myself, too.

[Sports Guy]

Here are some actual results(comparing AL only) since Crow has been here:

2010:

runs scored: 13th

OBP: 11th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 11th

BA: 8th

2009:

runs scored: 11th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 10th

OPS: 10th

BA: 5th

2008:

runs scored: 8th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 5th

OPS: 8th

BA: 8th

2007:

runs scored: 9th

OBP: 9th

slugging: 10th

OPS: 10th

BA: 6th

2006:

runs scored: 10th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 9th

BA: 7th

2005:

runs scored: 10th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 5th

OPS: 5th

BA: 7th

2004:

runs scored: 6th

OBP: 4th

slugging: 8th

OPS: 7th

BA: 3rd

2003:

runs scored: 10th

OBP: 11th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 11th

BA: 8th

2002:

runs scored: 13th

OBP: 13th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 12th

BA: 14th

2001:

runs scored: 13th

OBP: 13th

slugging: 14th

OPS: 14th

BA: 14th

2000:

runs scored: 11th

OBP: 11th

slugging: 10th

OPS: 10th

BA: 9th

averages:

runs scored: 10.3

OBP: 9.5

slugging: 9.6

OPS: 9.7

BA: 8

What year was he hired again? Was it 2000? right before? right after?

[Sports Guy]

What's in it for AM and PA to keep Crowley aboard?

I don't know..but its well known that he is very well liked by these guys.

[Going Underground]

I don't know..but its well known that he is very well liked by these guys.

Have we ever had a winning record when Crowley is the hitting coach? I don't think AM and PGA pushed him to keep Crowlwy,but I think they might have steered Buck in that direction. Should be interesting whether Kranitz stays or Connor or someone like him gets the job. Interesring Buck said he wanted to have coaches in place pretty quick, but it looks like all the coaches won't be named till after the World Series.

[Bradysburns]

What's in it for AM and PA to keep Crowley aboard?

Well, donning my tinfoil helmet... Angelos could see Crow as a loyal source of information from inside the clubhouse?

[Frobby]

What year was he hired again? Was it 2000? right before? right after?

He was hired in 1999.

1998 (pre-Crowley): 817 runs (7th), .273/.347/.447 (5th/4th/7th)

1999 (with Crowley): 851 runs (8th), .279/.353/.447 (6th/5th/7th)

There was a lot of turnover from '98 to '99. The '98 team had Palmeiro, Alomar, E. Davis and Hoiles. The '99 team had W. Clark, Conine, DeShields, Belle and C. Johnson. So, it's not apples to apples. Ripken, Anderson, Baines and Surhoff all had much better years in '99 than in '98.

[clapdiddy]

Well, donning my tinfoil helmet... Angelos could see Crow as a loyal source of information from inside the clubhouse?

I honestly don't think that Buck takes this job if he is forced to keep any coaches.

[Sports Guy]

He was hired in 1999.

1998 (pre-Crowley): 817 runs (7th), .273/.347/.447 (5th/4th/7th)

1999 (with Crowley): 851 runs (8th), .279/.353/.447 (6th/5th/7th)

There was a lot of turnover from '98 to '99. The '98 team had Palmeiro, Alomar, E. Davis and Hoiles. The '99 team had W. Clark, Conine, DeShields, Belle and C. Johnson. So, it's not apples to apples. Ripken, Anderson, Baines and Surhoff all had much better years in '99 than in '98.

So, in 4 of his first 5 seasons, the best we could do, in any of these categories is 8th and in most categories, we were at or near the very bottom.

So, how was he even able to keep his job after those horrible results?

[Bradysburns]

I honestly don't think that Buck takes this job if he is forced to keep any coaches.

I pray you're right. But there are many ways to skin a cat, and keep a Crowley in the clubhouse.

"Buck, looking around, I don't see any hitting coaches better than Crow. You do what you want, of course, but he really has a great friendship with our current players. Would be nice to keep that continuity, especially if you are going to bring in [name Buck hire], who I know nothing about... Andy and I are on the same page, here. But it's YOUR decision, Buck."

Again, I just shined up my tinfoil helmet, so it's especially powerful right now.

[Bradysburns]

Here are some actual results(comparing AL only) since Crow has been here:

2010:

runs scored: 13th

OBP: 11th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 11th

BA: 8th

2009:

runs scored: 11th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 10th

OPS: 10th

BA: 5th

2008:

runs scored: 8th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 5th

OPS: 8th

BA: 8th

2007:

runs scored: 9th

OBP: 9th

slugging: 10th

OPS: 10th

BA: 6th

2006:

runs scored: 10th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 9th

BA: 7th

2005:

runs scored: 10th

OBP: 8th

slugging: 5th

OPS: 5th

BA: 7th

2004:

runs scored: 6th

OBP: 4th

slugging: 8th

OPS: 7th

BA: 3rd

2003:

runs scored: 10th

OBP: 11th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 11th

BA: 8th

2002:

runs scored: 13th

OBP: 13th

slugging: 11th

OPS: 12th

BA: 14th

2001:

runs scored: 13th

OBP: 13th

slugging: 14th

OPS: 14th

BA: 14th

2000:

runs scored: 11th

OBP: 11th

slugging: 10th

OPS: 10th

BA: 9th

averages:

runs scored: 10.3

OBP: 9.5

slugging: 9.6

OPS: 9.7

BA: 8

What year was he hired again? Was it 2000? right before? right after?

Is it just me, or do these stats represent more than a decade of unacceptable results?

[DrungoHazewood]

Occam's Razor conclusion: a whole lot of really good baseball people think Terry Crowley is a very good hitting coach.

They could be wrong? Sure. We have weak objective evidence showing that his teams underperformed. But as far as I know, 100% of the subjective evidence from knowledgable people supports Buck's decision.

[Sports Guy]

Occam's Razor conclusion: a whole lot of really good baseball people think Terry Crowley is a very good hitting coach.

They could be wrong? Sure. We have weak objective evidence showing that his teams underperformed. But as far as I know, 100% of the subjective evidence from knowledgable people supports Buck's decision.

I am sorry but this is bs. At some point, whether people believe he is good or not, the results on the field have to matter.

If they don't matter, then whats the point? Why fire anyone? Why get rid of any player?

[utvolzac]

Very disappointing. I was really optomistic about finally getting rid of Crowley when Buck was hired. I was hoping some fresh blood might jump start Wieters bat.

[brotherlo38]

So, in 4 of his first 5 seasons, the best we could do, in any of these categories is 8th and in most categories, we were at or near the very bottom.

So, how was he even able to keep his job after those horrible results?

As they like to say in college football, it's not the X's and the O's but the Jimmy's and the Joe's. The offense hasn't been that great the past decade but most of those years only a homer would think our offense was going to be in the top of the league.

I also don't believe the conspiracy theorists who think Angelos or MacPhail have a hand in this. I'm fairly certain Buck made sure that when it came to hiring his staff he wouldn't be stuck with someone he didn't want on the staff.

[Tony-OH]

It's fascinating. Even if he actually is a very good hitting coach, it's fairly amazing that he has kept his job through 3 GM changes and 4 managerial changes despite poor offensive results over the years for this team. You'd just think one of these managers would want to try something different.

Funny, the only constant then is Peter Angelos. :scratchchinhmm: