Injuries happen

[Frobby]

Here's a final tally for 2014.

Baltimore -- Machado (68), Davis (12), Wieters (128), Gonzalez (11), Hunter (18), Norris (13), Jimenez (26).

Boston -- Breslow (8), Victorino (125), Middlebrooks (86), Napoli (14), Buchholz (28), Carp (33), Doubront (19), Lavarnway (66), Ross (16), Craig (17), Bogaerts (6).

New York -- Ryan (31), Teixeira (15), Robertson (13), Cervelli (58), Nova (144), Billings (16), Pineda (97), Sabathia (127), Beltran (28), Kelley (31), Tanaka (65), Johnson (8), Phelps (35), McCann (6), Prado (13).

Tampa -- Moore (154), Cobb (35), Oviedo (19), Zobrist (14), Guyer (23), Hanigan (52), Myers (70), DeJesus (64), Escobar (16), Hellickson (92), Sands (85), Peralta (10).

Toronto -- Happ (13), Janssen (37), Reyes (17), Izturis (149), Lind (29), Santos (31), Rasmus (33), Cecil (14), Encarnacion (33), Gillespie (72), Reimold (14), Lawrie (84), Morrow (111), D. Johnson (26).

Totals:

Baltimore 276 (208 position players, 50 starting pitchers, 18 relievers)

Boston 418 (363 position players, 47 starters, 8 relievers)

New York 687 (159 position players, 468 starters, 60 relievers)

Tampa 634 (324 position players, 281 starters, 29 relievers)

Toronto 663 (457 position players, 124 starters, 82 relievers)

I'm pretty tired of hearing about how tough we had it with Wieters and Machado. Just look at the rest of our division.

[backwardsk]

Were Bougaerts and McCann 7 day concussions? Because I know Hardy was unavailable for more than 6 games but never landed on the DL. I'd argue that you could add Reimold and Santana to the count.

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[Bahama O's Fan]

Here's a final tally for 2014.

Baltimore -- Machado (68), Davis (12), Wieters (128), Gonzalez (11), Hunter (18), Norris (13), Jimenez (26).

Boston -- Breslow (8), Victorino (125), Middlebrooks (86), Napoli (14), Buchholz (28), Carp (33), Doubront (19), Lavarnway (66), Ross (16), Craig (17), Bogaerts (6).

New York -- Ryan (31), Teixeira (15), Robertson (13), Cervelli (58), Nova (144), Billings (16), Pineda (97), Sabathia (127), Beltran (28), Kelley (31), Tanaka (65), Johnson (8), Phelps (35), McCann (6), Prado (13).

Tampa -- Moore (154), Cobb (35), Oviedo (19), Zobrist (14), Guyer (23), Hanigan (52), Myers (70), DeJesus (64), Escobar (16), Hellickson (92), Sands (85), Peralta (10).

Toronto -- Happ (13), Janssen (37), Reyes (17), Izturis (149), Lind (29), Santos (31), Rasmus (33), Cecil (14), Encarnacion (33), Gillespie (72), Reimold (14), Lawrie (84), Morrow (111), D. Johnson (26).

Totals:

Baltimore 276 (208 position players, 50 starting pitchers, 18 relievers)

Boston 418 (363 position players, 47 starters, 8 relievers)

New York 687 (159 position players, 468 starters, 60 relievers)

Tampa 634 (324 position players, 281 starters, 29 relievers)

Toronto 663 (457 position players, 124 starters, 82 relievers)

I'm pretty tired of hearing about how tough we had it with Wieters and Machado. Just look at the rest of our division.

The difference is it happened to our young "stars", both offensive and defensively. Look at that Boston list, no real injuries to their top players. Tampa got hurt with Moore missing a lot. NY-I'm sorry, I have no sympathy. When you sign aging players, that is a risk you have to take. And no good player really missed much games for Toronto. Also, when you list games missed by starting pitchers, you aren't figuring the games that they would have played in (only 1/5 of the games), you are figuring in all of the games. Redo the numbers like that please and let's recount.

[Frobby]

The difference is it happened to our young "stars"' date=' both offensive and defensively. Look at that Boston list, no real injuries to their top players. Tampa got hurt with Moore missing a lot. NY-I'm sorry, I have no sympathy. When you sign aging players, that is a risk you have to take. And no good player really missed much games for Toronto. Also, when you list games missed by starting pitchers, you aren't figuring the games that they would have played in (only 1/5 of the games), you are figuring in all of the games. Redo the numbers like that please and let's recount.[/quote']

You can re-do the numbers yourself if you like, that's why I broke it down to show how many games were missed by position players, starters and relievers. But I totally disagree that missing a starting pitcher for 100 games is less impactful than losing a position player for 100 games, because starting pitchers have a huge impact on the game on the days they pitch.

Boston had no real injuries to their top players? Shane Victorino was worth 5.8 rWAR in 2013; Matt Wieters was worth 0.5. NY lost Tanaka (25), Pineda (25) and Nova (27) from their rotation, so you don't even need to get into the older guys like Sabathia. Toronto lost Lawrie, who was worth 1.7 rWAR in the 70 games he played, about the same as Machado. They lost a starting pitcher for a good chunk. They lost the AL HR leader for more than a month, and when he returned he wasn't the same (.959 OPS with 26 HR in 88 games before the injury; .773 with 8 HR in 40 games after the injury).

There's no question that the injuries to Wieters and Machado hurt us, but significant injuries are just part of baseball for every team.

[BarclaySouthway]

Also' date=' when you list games missed by starting pitchers, you aren't figuring the games that they would have played in (only 1/5 of the games), you are figuring in all of the games. Redo the numbers like that please and let's recount.[/quote']

You keep saying that. One missed start is worth way more than a game missed by a position player. You're suggesting that Frobby change the numbers for Tanaka, for example, to 13. Which would make it similar to the number of games Mike Napoli missed (14). You think that would more accurately represent the impact of each injury? Really?

[Oriole1940]

And the other teams mentioned did not make the playoffs, which says that what the Orioles did was all the more remarkable. Even in the playoffs, they went 3-4 and the games they lost were by an ave. of 1.5 runs a game. Does anyone here really believe that our 3 lost players, for what ever, reason would not have made up a run or two per game. We will never know for sure in those four games, but I will always believe they would have.

[Bahama O's Fan]

When I said to redo the numbers, I did not mean that a starting pitcher is worth more or less than a position player. The listing was giving just games missed, not how much they meant to the team. We could talk about that too, but let's list the acual games that the starting pitchers would have missed so we have a fair comparison on that single piece of information alone.

[BarclaySouthway]

When I said to redo the numbers' date=' I did not mean that a starting pitcher is worth more or less than a position player. The listing was giving just games missed, not how much they meant to the team. We could talk about that too, but let's list the acual games that the starting pitchers would have missed so we have a fair comparison on that single piece of information alone.[/quote']

But you would only apply that standard to starting pitchers. Not bench players, closers, LOOGYs, who also go long stretches without playing. Shouldn't we divide their games by some number as well? What about platoon players? If David Lough misses 50 games, but he's only played in 1/2 the games before that, do we divide it by two? Isn't it easier to just list the games and let anyone who is interested make whatever sense of it they will?

[Bahama O's Fan]

If you really want to find out how much injuries hurt a team, do a comparison of WAR of Player A compared to the player who took his place to see how much injuries affected a particular team. For example, compare Weiters WAR to Joseph/Hundley and see the difference.

[Loophole]

When I said to redo the numbers' date=' I did not mean that a starting pitcher is worth more or less than a position player. The listing was giving just games missed, not how much they meant to the team. We could talk about that too, but let's list the acual games that the starting pitchers would have missed so we have a fair comparison on that single piece of information alone.[/quote']

Except you are saying that a SP is worth less than a position player by only counting their actual start days. Jim Palmer played in 1/6 the amount of games Eddie Murray played. He did not have 1/6 the impact Eddie Murray did. You can't compare games played for position players to games started for pitchers because that's using entirely different scales, and the whole point here is to measure the impact of players lost.

[hoosiers]

Except you are saying that a SP is worth less than a position player by only counting their actual start days. Jim Palmer played in 1/6 the amount of games Eddie Murray played. He did not have 1/6 the impact Eddie Murray did. You can't compare games played for position players to games started for pitchers because that's using entirely different scales, and the whole point here is to measure the impact of players lost.

That is the whole point and Frobby's continued posting of the main point.

I will say that the analysis does not focus much on positional depth. It is not unusual to have a backup replacement player or better on the bench, in the minors or possibly available via trade or free agent pick up. The Os missed Wieters, but Joseph was a capable replacement and Hundley was acquired fairly cheaply.

The number in the analysis that sticks out the most to me is the total SP days lost for the NYY - which we have talked about. While the Os did have one excellent SP candidate in the minors (Gausman) to start the season, the Os would have been ill-equipped to deal with missing FOUR SPs from the rotation for a majority of the season - which ultimately did in the NYY though the NYY turned in a respectable season including a shrewd pickup of McCarthy even with Jeter stinking up the joint.

The Os cruised to an easy divisional title and IMO the divisional injuries was the most important factor.

[Can_of_corn]

Why does Reimold not count as an injury for the O's?

[Frobby]

Why does Reimold not count as an injury for the O's?

I've never counted anyone who never made the team during the year. For example, Wada the last two years. When Reimold was finally healthy, we DFA'd him rather than giving him a roster spot and it's not clear he would have made the club this spring. I do it same way for all the teams.

[Frobby]

Interesting article on 2014 injuries here: http://www.hardballtimes.com/2014-disabled-list-information-and-so-much-more/. The Orioles were well below league average in total DL trips and days lost to injury.

[MaineFan]

Interesting article on 2014 injuries here: http://www.hardballtimes.com/2014-disabled-list-information-and-so-much-more/. The Orioles were well below league average in total DL trips and days lost to injury.

Excellent research and information here. It looks as though the Orioles were around league average in DL days for hitters but well below league average in DL days for pitchers. If the pitching luck runs out next season it will be imperative they have as much depth as possible. I think Duquette realizes this and will continue to add that pitching depth.