Injuries happen

[Tywright7]

Even though 169 games missed by the starters might sound light a lot, it really isn't. That only amounts to about 32 starts missed. In some cases, I think guys were put on the DL just to give them a blow when they were doing poorly (Norris). Also, of the 169 games, I think 63 were by Wright and Wilson, who might not have started even if they'd been healthy.

Jimenez - 32 starts

Chen - 31 (optioned to the minors briefly)

Tillman - 31

Gonzalez - 26 (he was legitimately on the DL)

Norris - 11 (he was put on the DL and then briefly put back in the rotation before being yanked permanently, then DFA'd)

Gausman - 17 (he was on the DL for a while but I don't think he was in the rotation at the time; that came later in the season)

Wright - 9

Wilson - 5

Any season where you only use 8 starters, and 3 of the guys in the OD rotation never go on the DL, is a pretty healthy season IMO.

Compared to 2012-2014, last year wasn't a healthy year for the rotation. Tillman probably should have been DLed as well.

[Frobby]

Compared to 2012-2014, last year wasn't a healthy year for the rotation. Tillman probably should have been DLed as well.

2014 was crazy healthy. We only used seven starters, including McFarland who made one start, which as I recall was due to a doubleheader rather than an injury.

[riprulz8]

Compared to 2012-2014, last year wasn't a healthy year for the rotation. Tillman probably should have been DLed as well.

Serious question: was it known that Tillman was banged up last year? I don't remember hearing anything. Did it come out later that he was downplaying an injury? Just curious....

[Frobby]

Serious question: was it known that Tillman was banged up last year? I don't remember hearing anything. Did it come out later that he was downplaying an injury? Just curious....

As I recall, Tillman had three-four good starts in a row, then strained a groin muscle and missed a start, and wasn't the same when he returned to the rotation. The injury at least disrupted his hot streak, and perhaps hampered him thereafter.

[OFFNY]

o

 

(MAY 2nd)

 

The Orioles have been beset by 2 injuries in 2 consecutive games.

One of the injuries is long-term, and the other is (hopefully) short-term.

Let's go, Orioles. Time to play like a "Next Man Up" team.

 

o

[OFFNY]

OFFNY said:

o

 

(MAY 2nd)

 

The Orioles have been beset by 2 injuries in 2 consecutive games.

One of the injuries is long-term, and the other is (hopefully) short-term.

Let's go, Orioles. Time to play like a "Next Man Up" team.

 

o

o

 

Zach is back (thank goodness.)

 

o

[OFFNY]

o

 

(JULY 21st)

 

Adam Jones:  ) "There are injuries and illnesses and things like that on every team in baseball, so you just have to sack up and get after it."

https://twitter.com/masnRoch/status/755960572844343296

 

o

[OFFNY]

OFFNY said:

o

 

(JULY 21st)

 

Adam Jones: )"There are injuries and illnesses and things like that on every team in baseball, so you just have to sack up and get after it."

https://twitter.com/masnRoch/status/755960572844343296

 

o

o

 

Well said, Adam.

And well played by the Orioles, as of late.

 

o

[Frobby]

Here is my unofficial injury tally for 2016 (games missed):

Baltimore: Matusz 15, Gausman 17, Gallardo 51, Hardy 42, Joseph 29, O'Day 80, Worley 16, Duensing 69, McFarland 52, Kim 11, Tillman 19, Rickard 69, Pearce 19.

Boston: C. Smith 147, Vazquez 8, Rodriguez 51, Sandoval 157, Kelly 29, Holt 37, Hanigan 52, Swihart 105, Rutledge 99, Young 50, Kimbrall 17, O'Sullivan 27, Tazawa 81, Uehara 45, Wright 48, Benitendi 17.

New York: M. Williams 91, Mitchell 126, Pinder 148, Rodriguez 21, Sabathia 14, Severino 15, Ackley 112, Teixiera 18, Parmelee 54, Shreve 38, Mullee 80, Swarzak 24, Eovaldi 47, Hicks 30, Green 28, Judge 17.

Tampa: Boxberger 101, Cobb 132, Kiermaier 48, Webb 28, Guyer 22, Forsythe 28, Mahtook 41, Pearce 23, Colome 16, Souza 17, Jennings 82, Romero 15, Morrison 16, Duffy 10, Franklin 7.

Toronto: Estrada 19, Schultz 45, Loup 50, Travis 49, Morales 94, Cecil 42, Tulowitzki 20, Bautista 42, Floyd 86, Goins 24, Carrera 14, Pillar 12.

Breaking it down by category:

Baltimore: 170 position players, 87 starters, 232 bullpen = 489 games missed

Boston: 525 position players, 99 starters, 346 bullpen = 970 games missed

New York: 342 position players, 76 starters, 444 bullpen = 862 games missed

Tampa: 253 position players, 132 starters, 201 bullpen = 586 games missed

Toronto: 161 position players, 19 starters, 317 bullpen = 497 games missed

The Orioles got off pretty easy in 2016.  

[OFFNY]

o

 

Hardy Becomes Latest Oriole Lost to Injury

(By Roch Kubatko)

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/06/hardy-becomes-latest-oriole-lost-to-injury.html

 

o

[Frobby]

Here is an update for games missed on the DL in 2017.

Baltimore:  Miley 4, Santander 121, Tillman 29, Rickard 16, Britton 78, Castillo 22, Flaherty 82, O'Day 16, Davis 26, Hardy 71, Crichton 16, Trumbo 9, Gentry 9

Boston: Pomeranz 6, C. Smith 1`38, Elias 120, Price 94, Ross 143, Bradley 22, Holt 75, Rutledge 107, Sandoval 57, Wright 138, M. Hernandez 135, Pedroia 37, E.  Rodriguez 40, B. Johnson 20, Kelly 20, Bogaerts 25, Taylor 30, Barnes 11

New York: Austin 54, Gregorius 20, Sanchez 21, Bird 103, Chapman 33, Ellsbury 21, Sabathia 29, Warren 41, Hicks 60, Castro 46, Holliday 38, Fowler 85, Pineda 76, C. Frazier 30, Tanaka 9, Cessa 45, Cooper 43, C. Smith 18

Tampa: Boxberger 80, Rasmus 117 Ramos 76, M. Smith 13, Odorizzi 26, Cedeno 138, Hunter 30 Moreno 55, Diaz 16, Bourjos 8, Andriese 64, Miller 40, Weeks 37, Kiermeier 61, Robertson 32, Beckham 6, Cobb 15, Faria 22

Toronto: Osuna 6, Sparkman 78 Howell 63, Donaldson 38, Sanchez 84, Happ 39, Tulowitzki 89, Pearce 26, Cerliliani 120, Martin 41, Alford 62, Liriano 20, Travis 103, Carrera 11, Coghlan 50, Smith 28, Campos 37, Maile 52, Bolsigner 10, Valdez 51, Cole 4, Montero 12

So, here is the breakdown by team:

Baltimore:  356 position players, 33 starting pitchers, 110 relievers = 499 games missed

Boston:  458 position players, 298 starting pitchers, 462 relievers = 1218 games missed

New York: 521 position players, 114 starting pitchers, 137 relievers = 772 games missed

Tampa: 390 position players, 127 starting pitchers, 319 relievers = 836 games missed

Toronto:  604 position players, 143 starting pitchers, 277 relievers = 1024 games missed

 

I think it is safe to say that injuries should not be used as an excuse why the Orioles did not perform better in 2017.    We were the healthiest team in the division by a wide margin.

[wildcard]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Here is an update for games missed on the DL in 2017.

Baltimore:  Miley 4, Santander 121, Tillman 29, Rickard 16, Britton 78, Castillo 22, Flaherty 82, O'Day 16, Davis 26, Hardy 71, Crichton 16, Trumbo 9, Gentry 9

Boston: Pomeranz 6, C. Smith 1`38, Elias 120, Price 94, Ross 143, Bradley 22, Holt 75, Rutledge 107, Sandoval 57, Wright 138, M. Hernandez 135, Pedroia 37, E.  Rodriguez 40, B. Johnson 20, Kelly 20, Bogaerts 25, Taylor 30, Barnes 11

New York: Austin 54, Gregorius 20, Sanchez 21, Bird 103, Chapman 33, Ellsbury 21, Sabathia 29, Warren 41, Hicks 60, Castro 46, Holliday 38, Fowler 85, Pineda 76, C. Frazier 30, Tanaka 9, Cessa 45, Cooper 43, C. Smith 18

Tampa: Boxberger 80, Rasmus 117 Ramos 76, M. Smith 13, Odorizzi 26, Cedeno 138, Hunter 30 Moreno 55, Diaz 16, Bourjos 8, Andriese 64, Miller 40, Weeks 37, Kiermeier 61, Robertson 32, Beckham 6, Cobb 15, Faria 22

Toronto: Osuna 6, Sparkman 78 Howell 63, Donaldson 38, Sanchez 84, Happ 39, Tulowitzki 89, Pearce 26, Cerliliani 120, Martin 41, Alford 62, Liriano 20, Travis 103, Carrera 11, Coghlan 50, Smith 28, Campos 37, Maile 52, Bolsigner 10, Valdez 51, Cole 4, Montero 12

I'm too tired to tally these up and break them down tonight, but will edit this tomorrow.    In any event, it's pretty easy to see that we got off pretty light on injuries even though some key guys went down at times.

 

Just because Tillman didn't go on the DL does not mean he was health.   The same is true for Jones.  Both players played injured most of the season because the O's did not have the depth to replace them and because they felt obligated  to play injured because the amount of money they were being paid.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Just because Tillman didn't go on the DL does not mean he was health.   The same is true for Jones.  Both players played injured most of the season because the O's did not have the depth to replace them and because they felt obligated  to play injured because the amount of money they were being paid.

First of all, I don't disagree with the global point that games on the DL does not fully reflect the extent to which players' seasons may have been impacted by injuries.    It's not really possible to quantify that, so that's why I just stick to the objective facts of how many games were spent on the DL.

Second, it's not like the Orioles are the only team in the division who had players who were playing hurt.    I don't put the other teams under a microscope like I do with the Orioles, but I'm sure every team could point to some guys who were playing through injuries of various kinds.

Third, Tillman repeatedly said he was healthy, and even if his shoulder issue has somehow affected his arm angle as many believe, it's not clear that he'll ever return to being the old Tillman.   It's not like this was some one-off fluke injury that should not have any impact on 2018.

Fourth, I dispute that Jones played hurt for most of the season, any more than he usually does.    In fact, I'd say that his first half of the season was much healthier than in 2016 and several other seasons I can think of.    He was clearly hurting towards the end of the year.    He plays the game hard, he's getting older and these issues aren't going to go away.

Finally, I'm a bit wary of saying some player had a poor season because he was playing through injuries, as though there's some expectation that the player will do better the next year because he'll be healthier.   Remember the end of last season, when people were saying that Chris Davis had a poor season because he was playing with a very sore hand for much of the year?    

The reason I started this thread six years ago was to show that every team has significant injuries during the season, and the Orioles aren't uniquely affected.    The data this year suggests that, if anything, the O's got off a bit light on the injury front compared to their AL East competitors.     The team's poor record should in no way be excused because of injuries.

[wildcard]

50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

First of all, I don't disagree with the global point that games on the DL does not fully reflect the extent to which players' seasons may have been impacted by injuries.    It's not really possible to quantify that, so that's why I just stick to the objective facts of how many games were spent on the DL.

Second, it's not like the Orioles are the only team in the division who had players who were playing hurt.    I don't put the other teams under a microscope like I do with the Orioles, but I'm sure every team could point to some guys who were playing through injuries of various kinds.

Third, Tillman repeatedly said he was healthy, and even if his shoulder issue has somehow affected his arm angle as many believe, it's not clear that he'll ever return to being the old Tillman.   It's not like this was some one-off fluke injury that should not have any impact on 2018.

Fourth, I dispute that Jones played hurt for most of the season, any more than he usually does.    In fact, I'd say that his first half of the season was much healthier than in 2016 and several other seasons I can think of.    He was clearly hurting towards the end of the year.    He plays the game hard, he's getting older and these issues aren't going to go away.

Finally, I'm a bit wary of saying some player had a poor season because he was playing through injuries, as though there's some expectation that the player will do better the next year because he'll be healthier.   Remember the end of last season, when people were saying that Chris Davis had a poor season because he was playing with a very sore hand for much of the year?    

The reason I started this thread six years ago was to show that every team has significant injuries during the season, and the Orioles aren't uniquely affected.    The data this year suggests that, if anything, the O's got off a bit light on the injury front compared to their AL East competitors.     The team's poor record should in no way be excused because of injuries.

I am not trying to say that Jones will be less injured next year.  But if they have Hays to sub for him it may turn out better than Rickard or Gentry.  One of the reasons Buck puts him out there injured is that there is such a dropl off when he in on the bench.

As far as Tillman goes.  The guy looked injured all year.  Him saying he in not hurt is more a badge of honor than the truth.  He knew he had to make changes in his delivery because on his shoulder injury.  An he knew he was pitching ineffectively though he kept trying.     

An off season of rehab could allow him to strengthen his shoulder and regain his arm slot.   If that happens he could have a good year next year.   But none the less, the unknown is why the O's should sign him to a low base salary with incentives for starts made.  That way if he doesn't bound back he can be DFA'd and sent to Sarasota to rehab some more.

[Frobby]

Here’s a fangraphs article that reports on days lost/DL trips for every team in 2017.   https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/2017-disabled-list-information/ By total days lost, the O’s had the 5th lowest injury time of any team in MLB.    Certainly can’t use injuries to excuse their poor season.  

Their totals are based on days lost, whereas mine were on games lost and so were a little lower.