Would you trade Adam Jones even up for these CF's?

[luismatos4prez]

I want AJ back next year with Mullins and Stewart

Let Mancini, Trumbo, and Davis fight for 1B/DH at bats. No outfield for any of them.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

29 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

You must have blocked out the memory of Delmon Young playing outfield. 

Or Trumbo in right field. 

[99ct]

1 hour ago, Santandah said:

1) I did not say anyone was prejudiced. I made a snippy comment that requires reading with a little nuance. It was a riff off of the refrain that often surfaces here on the Orioles Hangout that anyone who dislikes Adam Jones does so because he is black. (Though I have no doubt there are some people who do, that is not what I was saying. Hence the punchline about being jealous because Jones bought Cal's house. I suppose I should have used a smiley face emoji.)

2) To say that Adam Jones has been overpaid is a borderline incendiary comment. He signed a 6 year $85.5 million contract in 2012. Even then it was considered a very team-friendly deal. Over the course of that contract he has been the on the field, in the clubhouse, and in the community leader of an orioles team that repeatedly had winning seasons and gone to the playoffs. And if you're a stats guy, strictly by WAR he was underpaid. Over the course of that six-year extension, he has been worth 17.4 WAR so far. Using the more conservative value of 1 WAR being worth $7 million, he has been worth $121.8 million. If you want to be even more conservative and make 1 WAR equal $5 million, then he's been worth $87 million, or basically exactly the value of his contract. But even if you want to throw out WAR and stats completely, the guy has been an absolute gem for this organization both on the field and in terms of public relations locally, nationally and even internationally if you take into account the World Baseball Classic. 

3) Your theory is based on the idea that he could have brought back a prospect or two. But even this is dubious. If you listen to his words, the Phillies wanted him to be a platoon fourth outfielder. Players like that do not bring back valued prospects. It would have been essentially a salary dump on the O's part. (And frankly, given what he has meant to Baltimore, getting rid of him as a salary dump is offensive.) Even still,  his contract is up at the end of the year and he is off the books, so not being able to dump his salary should have very little effect on the Orioles' financial capacity. If getting rid of around $5 million is going to make or break this franchise, it's in far greater trouble than any middling prospect can solve. 

4) Now, is he underperforming his contract this year? Sure. He's not a center fielder anymore. And this year, according to WAR, he is being over paid. But that is one year out of eight, and it's just what happens with baseball contracts. We have no idea whether he was asked to move to a corner spot. Something tells me that he wasn't in any firm way, as the Orioles do not have anyone on their roster worthy of being a starting center fielder right now -- and no, Joey Rickard is not a starting center fielder, nor are any of the current OF prospects in the system. Not yet, at least. Beyond that, if you listen to what he's said, he said out right he would move to a corner spot if a prospect came up, though he would prefer to do it in September.

5) There are lots of baseball players who don't earn their contracts and who do deserve the ire of their fanbase. Adam Jones is not one of them.  

1000% this. It's bizarre all around: on July 7, AJ made the trade-resign like Chapman comment. I'm guessing he knows he won't be resigned and therefore won't take a trade because he now needs to focus on proving his value. 

 

That said, I like the dude, he's gonna go down as an O's legend, I don't see the problem with letting him finish the season in CF. 

[99ct]

5 hours ago, foxfield said:

He actually joked on twitter too, that the O's should trade him then resign him....I agree though that is the one piece I wish he didn't say...Of course if that's how he feels.....

My guess is he would have been interested in this, but during "the dinner" he found out that he probably won't be resigned. As a result he chose to finish the season here. 

I like the dude and welcome him to finish out the year. Wish he coulda been traded somewhere so I could root for him in the playoffs, but oh well. 

[Roll Tide]

5 hours ago, 99ct said:

1000% this. It's bizarre all around: on July 7, AJ made the trade-resign like Chapman comment. I'm guessing he knows he won't be resigned and therefore won't take a trade because he now needs to focus on proving his value. 

 

That said, I like the dude, he's gonna go down as an O's legend, I don't see the problem with letting him finish the season in CF. 

What better way to "prove value" than playing for a contender? 

[Going Underground]

Jones is my favorite Oriole. Not like they were going to get top prospects for him anyhow.Just two more months.I think Duquette wanted to trade him and things got misinterpreted on both sides.

[Aristotelian]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

You must have blocked out the memory of Delmon Young playing outfield. 

I think Trumbo is worse. Hard to compare dWAR since they don't play every day, but Trumbo UZR/150 the last three years are -23, -18.5, -15. Mancini is only -21, -9.5. Delmon put up -4 and -7 in his years with the O's. That puts in perspective just how bad Mancini and Trumbo are.

What bothers me most about Trumbo is how he pulls up any time he gets close to the wall. I don't know that I've ever seen him jump for a ball.

[VaBird1]

21 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I think Trumbo is worse. Hard to compare dWAR since they don't play every day, but Trumbo UZR/150 the last three years are -23, -18.5, -15. Mancini is only -21, -9.5. Delmon put up -4 and -7 in his years with the O's. That puts in perspective just how bad Mancini and Trumbo are.

What bothers me most about Trumbo is how he pulls up any time he gets close to the wall. I don't know that I've ever seen him jump for a ball.

To be fair he is a first baseman, he shouldn’t be playing outfield.  Delmon Young was supposed to be an outfielder.

[99ct]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

What better way to "prove value" than playing for a contender? 

Yeah I mean, I'm shocked he didn't want to go. Of course, being the 4th OF, if true, wouldn't help. But I like Adam enough to not have a problem with him chilling here the rest of the year

 

[Frobby]

13 hours ago, crawjo said:

I don't think Jones necessarily has to be a 4th OF at this point. I think he can still be a regular, so long as he agrees to move to a corner outfield slot and to maximize his defense there. He also needs to work on diversifying his offensive game. At his age, there is no way he can have the same success hacking at everything that he had five years ago. If he were a little more selective, it would buy him some time. He doesn't have to become Joey Votto, but he has to learn how to take a few more pitches. 

You don’t find many 11 year veterans who are able to suddenly able to drastically alter their approach to hitting.    Jones is what he is.    

[Dipper9]

I listened to Adam's snippets from the R2C2 show this morning, and I have changed my opinion on this.  He wants to be the veteran leader on this team, and it appears that Duquette pulled his typically lack of communication which has clouded the water and caused hurt feelings.  

I really wouldn't mind Jones back in right field for the next 2 years.  Remember when we didn't sign Nick and haven't found a replacement in four years?  I don't want to repeat that mistake. 

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

I think Trumbo is worse. Hard to compare dWAR since they don't play every day, but Trumbo UZR/150 the last three years are -23, -18.5, -15. Mancini is only -21, -9.5. Delmon put up -4 and -7 in his years with the O's. That puts in perspective just how bad Mancini and Trumbo are.

What bothers me most about Trumbo is how he pulls up any time he gets close to the wall. I don't know that I've ever seen him jump for a ball.

That is why I posted about in another thread.  We are going to be terrible next year as long as guys like Mancini and Trumbo are playing in the outfield. When a high fly ball is hit 10 feet away from them and they can get to it there is no way you are going to be a good team.   Really this is only get worse as from reports Mountcastle doesn't have a position either.   Well Valencia and Pedro Alvarez dont' either.  Hard to imagine why a team with 5 DH's lost a ton of games.  

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, VaBird1 said:

To be fair he is a first baseman, he shouldn’t be playing outfield.  Delmon Young was supposed to be an outfielder.

No, this is not Mancini's fault by any means. It's poor roster construction and an ill conceived extension to a DH coming off a career year. Mancini would be just fine as a DH/1B. Mancini looked ready to take over but DD/Angelos/Buck went with the veteran "sure thing" rather than risk depending on a young guy. Unfortunately, there is no end in sight until we find a market for Trumbo or play out the last year of his contract.

Signing Valencia didn't help either.

[VaBird1]

It might be fun to put all of the DH/1B out in the field for a September game.  I’m sure they could field nine at one time.

[Babypowder]

33 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

I listened to Adam's snippets from the R2C2 show this morning, and I have changed my opinion on this.  He wants to be the veteran leader on this team, and it appears that Duquette pulled his typically lack of communication which has clouded the water and caused hurt feelings.  

I really wouldn't mind Jones back in right field for the next 2 years.  Remember when we didn't sign Nick and haven't found a replacement in four years?  I don't want to repeat that mistake. 

The situations are very different. Not finding a replacement for Markakis hurt because the team thought itself to be competitive. We will not be competitive the next two years, so finding a "replacement" for a below average player is a lot less important. Whether Adam Jones is putting up a 1 win season or DJ Stewart is replacement level or below doesn't really matter.