Angelos interview in PressBox

[El Gordo]

You know... you can disagree without being a jerk.

What is it about today? I rarely sanction anybody for anything, but this is the third post I've had to play hall monitor on today.

Think before you post, ok?!? And read the rules! Especially this one:

If this rule was seriously inforced and I wish it would be, nobody could post.

[El Gordo]

Yes' date=' Santana's contract is a bargain. But you really can't use that as a baseline. Guys like Paul Byrd are getting far bigger deals than $5 million per on the FA market. By saying that $13 million per is his absolute limit for a pitcher, and that even $14 million is crazy, he is probably taking himself out of the discussion for Zito and maybe Schmidt, as well. For the record, I agree with you that shoring up the power positions of LF and 1B should be higher priorities.[/quote']

Would you really take some guy like Paul Byrd over Bedard or DCab or Loewen? How much better is Zito than any of these guys in the long run. Why throw that money away when you could spend it wisely on 5 or 6 guys you really need?

[Sapper]

If this rule was seriously inforced and I wish it would be, nobody could post.

I meant what I said. It was stupid. And if I had a dollar for everytime I've been insulted here without someone coming to rush to my rescue -- and trust me I don't need anyone to -- I could pay Angelos that billion dollars and this argument would all be moot.

[davearm]

"They are doing this day in and day out. And they are selling out and have a rabid fan base. [The] strongest baseball fans are, I think, the Boston fans. And they went 80 years and didn't win a damned thing but they were supported and they are fortunate to have that kind of fan base. Our problem has been [an inability] to generate the kind of revenue that is needed to compete in the AL East. "

How does this not anger everyone on this board? If Oriole fans are not outraged by this than the apathy is far worse than I ever believed.

I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was actually reading that quote correctly.

Folks, YOUR OWNER JUST STATED PUBLICLY THAT YOUR ARCH RIVAL HAS BETTER FANS THAN YOUR TEAM DOES! Regardless of the validity of the claim, the outrage over Angelos coming right out and saying that should be through the roof. Through. The. MF. Roof.

That right there was the Mike Tyson roundhouse of slaps in the face.

His evasive langauge about putting 'Baltimore' on the road jerseys is obnoxious.

Oh my gosh was it ever. Could he be any more of a lawyer with those comments?? "Reasonable" means something far different than "possible". And does he know it.

Angelos stated emphatically that he's a winner and he hates losing games. Well what he conveniently declined to mention is that he hates losing money even more (or perhaps more appropriately, he hates making less money than he could).

And a triple-LOL goes out to the folks that read that paragraph about the LF, the 1B, etc. -- the one that culminated with the $110M figure -- and thought that he was actually committing to doing any of those things. Nowhere did he say, "we'll be spending $60-$75M on a LF that will hit 30-35 HRs". All he did was acknowledge what the going rate for such a player is, and what the payroll implications would be of getting all the pieces that the O's need to compete (see also, "reasonable" versus "possible").

[MCO'sFan]

For people that liked what the heard from Angelos:

Did you read the part in which he basically blamed us, the fans of Baltimore, for his inability to compete with Yankees and Red Sox? How can anyone be happy about what was said?

"They are so far ahead of us, I can't do it in my head without writing on paper, but I would simplify it by saying in order for us to match what they take in [during a game] where they have a sell-out at 35,000 at $45 dollars [a ticket], we would have to have a ballpark that would hold 70,000 and sell that park out.

They are doing this day in and day out. And they are selling out and have a rabid fan base. [The] strongest baseball fans are, I think, the Boston fans. And they went 80 years and didn't win a damned thing but they were supported and they are fortunate to have that kind of fan base. Our problem has been [an inability] to generate the kind of revenue that is needed to compete in the AL East. "

How does this not anger everyone on this board? If Oriole fans are not outraged by this than the apathy is far worse than I ever believed.

His evasive langauge about putting 'Baltimore' on the road jerseys is obnoxious.

He attributes a lot of Oakland and Minnesota's success to good luck and the Orioles failures to bad luck and poor decisions from the front office. Guess what Pete, you put those people into place and interfere with their decision making - it is YOUR FAULT. Placing any blame on "bad luck" is so ridiculous I don't even know what to say.

I think you are taking what he said out of context. He's talking primarily about the fact that Boston has double the ticket prices. And, they have been more supportive of their team recently. Yes we have had 9 losing years and all that. But, I don't think he was blaming the Baltimore fans as much as pointing out the difference in revenue.

I choose to let those things go. It's just not worth getting upset over. It is what it is...ranting on this board will not fix anything

[Boston Dave]

If the O's concession numbers are so far out of whack, Boston's could be too. Who really knows what the actual numbers are for the Fan Index?

Witchy

I do. :002_sbiggrin:

Parking- almost no one parks near Fenway- they take the T. $1.25ish, more if you're coming from the outer suburbs.

Dog- $5.50

Beer- $7 (for a "premium")

Soda- I think is $4.75

Let me tell you this- I'm serious. It is no more expensive to drive 400 miles home, crash at a family member's house and go to the Yard then it is to T into Fenway, concessions and tickets being what they are. It is not TOO much more to fly home and do the same- that's insane.

[mikezpen]

Look carefully at the wording of his answers, and tell me that he promises to do a single specific thing. He says that improving the team will cost a lot of money. No sh!t Sherlock. He does say they intend to spend more money because it's becoming available thru the sports network. But he promised last winter, too.

We don't know any more now than we did before, and that interview gives us no reason to think that this winter won't be another joke.

[Elbren]

I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was actually reading that quote correctly.

Folks, YOUR OWNER JUST STATED PUBLICLY THAT YOUR ARCH RIVAL HAS BETTER FANS THAN YOUR TEAM DOES! Regardless of the validity of the claim, the outrage over Angelos coming right out and saying that should be through the roof. Through. The. MF. Roof.

That right there was the Mike Tyson roundhouse of slaps in the face.

This is one of the funniest and yet, saddest things I have ever read. This man has single-handedly flushed this team down the toilet, and in one comment, applauds a rival teams fanbase while completely insulting ANYONE who bothers to wear Orange and Black.

I don't care if you completely and utterly hate Angelos or your one of his constant apologists ... if this comment doesn't seriously upset you, then you need to find another sport to watch.

[JTrea81]

I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was actually reading that quote correctly.

Folks, YOUR OWNER JUST STATED PUBLICLY THAT YOUR ARCH RIVAL HAS BETTER FANS THAN YOUR TEAM DOES! Regardless of the validity of the claim, the outrage over Angelos coming right out and saying that should be through the roof. Through. The. MF. Roof.

That right there was the Mike Tyson roundhouse of slaps in the face.

I don't really see the problem with the quote - he's just telling it like it is. Have you ever seen Oriole Park besides Opening Day have the same atmosphere as Fenway on any day? No, because the "rabid" fanbase went with Memorial Stadium. Now OPACY is a cellphone talking haven with strong attraction to corporations and businesses. If the crowds were to become "rabid" I'm sure the ushers would have a heartattack. I'm not saying Angelos gets off the hook here because he has created this mess. By having such strict policies the Baltimore fan can't be "rabid" in OPACY. They took away the "Hey you suck" chant when it had a huge following on Opening Week in 2004 because it wasn't family friendly. If he wants the fanbase back and for them to be as "rabid" as the Sox he'd better spend some $ and relax some of these "family friendly" policies to make the ballpark a more enjoyable experience for the die-hard O's fan.

[frankpembleton]

I think you are taking what he said out of context. He's talking primarily about the fact that Boston has double the ticket prices. And' date=' they have been more supportive of their team recently. Yes we have had 9 losing years and all that. But, I don't think he was blaming the Baltimore fans as much as pointing out the difference in revenue.

I choose to let those things go. It's just not worth getting upset over. It is what it is...ranting on this board will not fix anything[/quote']

I am not taking anything out of context. He specifically said:

"They are doing this day in and day out. And they are selling out and have a rabid fan base. [The] strongest baseball fans are, I think, the Boston fans. And they went 80 years and didn't win a damned thing but they were supported and they are fortunate to have that kind of fan base. Our problem has been [an inability] to generate the kind of revenue that is needed to compete in the AL East. "

He is calling Red Sox fans better than Oriole fans. He says that they have gone longer without winning and are "fortunate to have that kind of fanbase." He then says he can't generate enough revenue because of this.

If you don't see this as a slap in the face to Oriole fans, then I don't know what to say.

Why even post about anything on a message board than if "it is what it is" and "ranting on this board will not fix anything." I am just hoping to show the last Oriole fans in the planet who care about the direction of this team what Peter Angelos is saying about them.

Oriole fans over time have been GREAT fans, every bit as good as Boston's. No fanbase can put up with an extended period of losing like the Orioles have gone through. We are finally starting to see a backlash from the fans now.

The owner of our favorite team is saying otherwise and you choose to be apathetic about it. That is fine. To be an Oriole fan these days is to be apathetic. I blame your apathy on Pete as well.

[wildcard]

People can choose to be upset about what Angelos said if they like. There are reasons why the experience of going to the park at Fenway is total different from going to OPCY.

Some of those reasons are:

1) Boston wins more often

2) They have a larger area to draw fans from

3) Those two things have allowed them to put better players on the field.

4) It has allowed them to maintain a higher payroll

5) Fan don't complain about paying higher ticket prices; they feel the experience of going to the game is worth the price

So there are many reasons why the fan base is different, but there is no denying that it is different. I went to Fenway this year. The excitement level and commitment for the fans is amazing to experience.

Now Angelos himself has to take much of the blame for OPCY not having that kind of atmosphere. In early to mid 90's OPCY sold out. When they put a good product on the field the fan responded. Angelos must take part of the blame for firing Johnson and Gillick when he had a good thing going. It has never been the same since.

However there were other factors. The Yankee and Boston wided the gap on spending for players over what other teams could afford to spend. In the middle 90's no team spend over 100M of payroll. Now the Yankees are double that. Boston followed as much as they could.

More revenue = better players, in most cases. The development of MASN is a neccessary step for the O's to be competitive. We will see much revenue it generations and how that translates to the field.

Angelos is not wrong about the fan base as far as it going. There is a huge difference. But there are reasons for it.

[nadecir]

An interesting interview, but I wonder why Angelos picked a small sports paper to conduct an interview versus a bigger publication?

Angelos fixates on equating ticket prices with player salaries. He mentions the relationship more than once during the interview. It means to me that first and foremost in Angelos' mind is the finances of the team. It is obvious to me that Angelos cares much more about the team finances than about winning.

He made no comment like "nine straight years of losing is horrendous, we must do everything we can to turn that around ASAP". He makes many excuses for losing. He blames luck, revenue inequities, bad player selection, and the fans for losing. Perhaps he should look in the mirror and take some responsibility himself.

His comment about his relationship with his investment group was "I think good, very good…I don’t know about very good. But, I think it’s a good one." This comment leads me to believe there has been some friction in the group.

We heard from Tony earlier this year that Angelos nixed a couple of potential deals that our front office had worked out. Wouldn't it be better for our front office to know the parameters of the deals that Angelos would agree to before they negotiate a dea? The current situation seems like a really inefficient way to do business. As many have said before, it would be best if Angelos just set an annual budget for Oriole player payroll. Perhaps he doesn't do this because he wants more control to veto any deal for reasons other than player salary.

I would have liked the interviewer to ask Angelos about his previous promise to open up the Orioles books. And also ask him about Forbes estimating that the Orioles have been profitable, even though he clams the Orioles have lost money. Angelos has a credibility problem with the fans, and he's going to have to "walk the talk" a long time before he corrects it.

[Witchy_Chick]

I don't really see the problem with the quote - he's just telling it like it is. Have you ever seen Oriole Park besides Opening Day have the same atmosphere as Fenway on any day? No.....

Yes, in 1996 and 1997. You know, when we actually were......wait for it......a winning team.

Witchy

[DrungoHazewood]

If you're really getting upset by this interview you need to step back and think about it.

Look at the facts. The O's only significantly outdrew the Sox in the early and mid 90s, when OPACY was a wonder of the baseball world and the O's were mainly contending.

In the 60s and 70s when the O's were the best team in baseball the Sox often drew twice the fans the O's did. They at least outdrew the O's ever year of the 70s, even if it wasn't 2 times every season. And this was the so-called heyday of the rabid, diehard O's fan at Memorial Stadium.

The first game I ever went to in 1979 was against the Sox. It was something like the 4th-largest regular season crowd in Memorial Stadium history (my dad made a note in the program). The crowd was 49525. The place seated 54,000.

More recently the Sox have sold out Fenway at ridiculous prices for seasons on end. Smaller park, but double the cost. They gave up on a newer, bigger Fenway because they realized they could make just as much money tapping into the insane demand of their fans.

Even when OPACY was sold out every night we heard endless whining about how most of the people in the box seats were on the cell phone, not even paying attention to the game. We still hear folks talk about how they'd like to have Memorial Stadium back because everyone there was a real fan - all 13,000 of them a game in '71 - 8,000 less than the Sox who finished 18 games behind the Birds.

Sorry if this makes me some kind of traitor in your mind, but outside of Maryland nobody would say O's fans are better than Sox fans. And I doubt that argument has changed in 50 years.

If you want it to change you need to go to more games and get your friends and family and coworkers to go, too. If we're really better than the Sox we should be outdrawing them by 8,000 when we're 18 games behind them in the standings.

[nadecir]

Sorry if this makes me some kind of traitor in your mind, but outside of Maryland nobody would say O's fans are better than Sox fans. And I doubt that argument has changed in 50 years.

So the Red Sox outdraw the Orioles, so what? If a bigger city outdraws a smaller one, does that mean their fans are better?

There are many reasons the Red Sox outdraw the Orioles. Boston has a bigger area in which to draw fans, has a bigger population, and has a higher average per-capita income than the Baltimore area. It doesn't mean that their fans care about their team more, or they are more fanatical than Oriole fans. It doesn't say anything about the average fan that goes to games in either city.

I am not the upset that the Red Sox outdraw the Orioles. I am a bit surprised that people take this fact and turn it around by insinuating the "Red Sox fans are better than Oriole fans" somehow.