Angelos interview in PressBox

[bgfield]

Sure, I still have hundreds of Steve Kline pictures tacked up all over my basement, all with the eyes cut out. The words "Laces out, Steve" are painted everywhere. :002_ssleepy:

Considering he was the king of balks last season, perhaps you should paint "Foot in FRONT of the rubber, Steve!" instead

[rolliefingers]

Sure, I still have hundreds of Steve Kline pictures tacked up all over my basement, all with the eyes cut out. The words "Laces out, Steve" are painted everywhere. :002_ssleepy:

I'm sure Steve Kline has a similar shrine to "Balkin'" Bob Davidson.

"WHERE WAS THE BALK, BOB? WHERE WAS THE F'IN BALK, BOB?!"

PaulFolk knows what I'm talking about.

[bgfield]

I'm sure Steve Kline has a similar shrine to "Balkin'" Bob Davidson.

"WHERE WAS THE BALK, BOB? WHERE WAS THE F'IN BALK, BOB?!"

PaulFolk knows what I'm talking about.

Was it Bob Davidson he blew up at after his second balk? I know he was responsible for the first.

That was probably one of my favorite moments from last year. Both balks were crap and Steve let 'em have it after the second one.

[mdguy2415]

Well, if we all want a piece of Angelos in person, he walks out the main entrance where a lot of the members of the visiting team walk into the ballpark at Schaffer Plaza, facing Russell Street every night after most home games...

Just go after a game, and stalk him there - seriously...

[RichMGH]

Well, if we all want a piece of Angelos in person, he walks out the main entrance where a lot of the members of the visiting team walk into the ballpark at Schaffer Plaza, facing Russell Street every night after most home games...

Just go after a game, and stalk him there - seriously...

Or his office building.

100 North Charles Street.

ATTACK!

[now]

[The] strongest baseball fans are, I think, the Boston fans. And they went 80 years and didn't win a damned thing but they were supported and they are fortunate to have that kind of fan base. Our problem has been [an inability] to generate the kind of revenue that is needed to compete in the AL East.

Question. If he would have said "Boston fans are great fans but I feel the fans here in Baltimore support the team just as strongly if not more" how would you feel?

I know I would feel a heck of a lot better than him saying the fans in Boston are stronger than the Baltimore fans...and yes, that's what he meant....there is nothing stronger than strongest right? So by him saying they are strongest he means they support their team stronger/more/better than we do.

Funny, this discussion of fans is a lot like baseball itself: stats vs. feelings. On a stats basis it seems clear that Boston has a stronger fan base--at least in the last few years. Our feeling is obviously is that we are better fans, regardless of the numbers. PA was talking in the context of the attendance numbers.

I see where the criticism is coming from if PA is implicitly blaming the fans for not supporting a losing team. It's true that it creates a revenue "problem"--but obviously there is also his responsibility to reciprocate fan interest by putting a winning team on the field. The problem here, with a fickle and not unconditionally strong fan base, is circular. It takes strong fan support to generate enough revenues to win, and it takes winning to generate strong fan support. PA does implicitly acknowledge part of his responsibility in terms of the ineffective FO management results. The other factor he points to is bad luck, and there's certainly some truth to that as well. Finally there is the factor of additonal funds available. Apart from the controversy over current revenues, there is the new promise of MASN funds to make a difference. Here I join the skeptics in looking at previous assurances of being "competitive"...while also still holding hope (as a "strong" fan) that this time--and this time it really had better happen--the new cash source will be committed to make a difference.

[RustyMcNail]

Gee, you think my Grandfather could run the O's?

I don't think he should even own a dog.

[bgfield]

I don't think he should even own a dog.

Yeah - I didn't even tell him about the $1000 it cost me to hospitalize my dog for pneumonia the other week!

[now]

You left out one vital stat. The teams' records.

Right, that gets into the circular part of winning boosting attendance. I guess to really know whose fans are stronger, we'd have to compare attendance in seasons with similar records. I don't know the answer to that.

[mdguy2415]

Well, in attending some of the Boston and New York games here the past week, I have gotten friendly a few of the fans and chatted with them about why a lot of them would travel to Baltimore.

The first reason is simply supply and demand, accessibility along with economics. Well, I went to school in NYC and would venture up to Boston once a year in the 1990's, and I will tell you right now, it was nothing in terms of fan support for either team as it is now. I remember the Yankees drawing 25-30K per game in 96' and the stadium being half empty!

The second reason is the recently fan and media explosion of both teams. The fanaticism in Boston and New York now was nothing like it was in the mid-90s'. Both teams are now in a peak period, where fan interest is strong, the two teams have ridiculous media coverage, a lot of cash, hyped up 24-a-day RSN's, Sports Talk Radio which seems to cover their teams like the White House Corps cover President Bush, charismatic players, a lot of bandwagon fans, and the feeling you of needing to be "in" to be a fan and you have the main reasons why the Yankee and Red Sox fan bases are so fanatical.

These days in that part the country of, unless you make a good living, or have grandfathered yourself into the season ticket base for both teams, the average family cannot afford to see their team, so they come here. In New York City and New England, tickets are also hard to find for those teas, so it makes more sense to come here to Baltimore for a lot less money.

The third reason is our fellow Oriole Fans, access and our ticket affordability. As well, a lot of season ticket holders and fans sell their tickets via EBay and Stub Hub for a profit, so that's another reason for the proliferation of Yankee and Red Sox fans to Baltimore. Furthermore, especially for die-hard Yankee fans, they have to ability to see their players up close during the game and batting practice, snap pictures, get autographs, and come to one of the crown jewels in baseball. You also have a lot of the businesses and hotels that cater and wait for those fans to show up so they can make a buck. As well, add to that the generous ticket prices we offer here, you have the reason for the takeover for each Red Sox/Yankee series.

Now where does that leave those who bleed for the Black and Orange? Well, simply it is a reflection of the state of this team. Not to put all the onus on Angelos, but he's captain of the ship, and no matter what, he needs to realize the impact that these fans have on us. Oriole fans no doubt care for their team, but why spend your hard earned money if the entity you give to doesn't put out a competitive product.

Combine the lack of a product now, and the Orioles fine history until 1998 and the lack of anything to remember for the past decade, we have the seeds for fan apathy.

Simply put, not to beat a dead horse, we need to get better, spend the cash, rebuild the farm system and get the players to play for pride and to win, not for the paycheck. If not, for the Yankee and Red Sox attendance, we'd be in the position of the Pittsburgh Pirates. There's too much history and too much to be proud of for the amount of fan apathy -- but, everything starts at the top, and since they are collecting our money, they need to do their part.

Fans will come back and support a superior product. We don't have that right now. It's up to Mr. Angelos and his Front Office to do whatever they can to make this team competitive again. It's embarrassing and demoralizing to see the visiting fans outnumber you 50-50, 60-40 or 70-30...

Smart investments, restoring the pride of what the Orioles once were, caring about the fans and their welfare can create a Renaissance like is being seen in Detroit.

[frankpembleton]

Right, that gets into the circular part of winning boosting attendance. I guess to really know whose fans are stronger, we'd have to compare attendance in seasons with similar records. I don't know the answer to that.

There has already been a lot of discussion in this thread on that exact topic. That both teams have had very loyal fans over the years was the general consensus.

The anger at Angelos is due to the fact that he had a fan base as rabid if not more rabid than Boston's when he took over the team in 1993 and through his own terrible decision making and interference, ruined what had been a great thing. Now he blames the fans in part for his inability to compete....that is the problem.

[now]

There has already been a lot of discussion in this thread on that exact topic. That both teams have had very loyal fans over the years was the general consensus.

The anger at Angelos is due to the fact that he had a fan base as rabid if not more rabid than Boston's when he took over the team in 1993 and through his own terrible decision making and interference, ruined what had been a great thing. Now he blames the fans in part for his inability to compete....that is the problem.

Very well put. There are many parts of this problem, and the refusal of fans to support a continually losing team is the least of it. Really the crunch time is now (next season), because now there can be no more excuses. Bad luck, poor drafts, bad decisions, poor attendance, unfair revenue streams...at this point a significant boost in spending gives us the best chance at a quick turnaround. We don't have the patience for any of the other excuses anymore, so the outcome of this offseason is critical.

[DrungoHazewood]

There has already been a lot of discussion in this thread on that exact topic. That both teams have had very loyal fans over the years was the general consensus.

The anger at Angelos is due to the fact that he had a fan base as rabid if not more rabid than Boston's when he took over the team in 1993 and through his own terrible decision making and interference, ruined what had been a great thing. Now he blames the fans in part for his inability to compete....that is the problem.

But you have two independent variables here - a rabid fanbase AND a shiny, new, unique, beautiful stadium the likes of which have never been seen before.

To figure out exactly how rabid O's fans are you'd need to account for the effect of both.

[Sapper]

But you have two independent variables here - a rabid fanbase AND a shiny, new, unique, beautiful stadium the likes of which have never been seen before.

To figure out exactly how rabid O's fans are you'd need to account for the effect of both.

Drungo, you're OVER-analyzing as usual. Sorry but this is a case of there being too many variables. Let's not get lost in the forest through all of the trees. If it walks like duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Baltimore was a small city that supported it's team well better than the average team for decades. And only has seen a significant drop off in the last couple years. Given the circumstances that has the feel of a very good fan base. I've lived in New England, Maryland, Missouri, the west coast and other places. Trust me, Baltimore's fans are the best I've seen. That's about as objective as I can get.

At the same time, I have been to Fenway prior to the last few years and trust me, that place was anything BUT rabid. It was no more rabid than San Diego (and anyone who's lived in San Diego will know what I'm talking about.)

I know Pete is full of Shi'ite because I have eyes and ears and I've actually lived in these various places through the years. There was no better place to watch a ballgame than the cheap seats in Memorial. The fans were loyal, generally respectful, often drunk and the best fans I've ever been around.

[DrungoHazewood]

Drungo, you're OVER-analyzing as usual. Sorry but this is a case of there being too many variables. Let's not get lost in the forest through all of the trees. If it walks like duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Baltimore was a small city that supported it's team well better than the average team for decades. And only has seen a significant drop off in the last couple years. Given the circumstances that has the feel of a very good fan base. I've lived in New England, Maryland, Missouri, the west coast and other places. Trust me, Baltimore's fans are the best I've seen. That's about as objective as I can get.

At the same time, I have been to Fenway prior to the last few years and trust me, that place was anything BUT rabid. It was no more rabid than San Diego (and anyone who's lived in San Diego will know what I'm talking about.)

I know Pete is full of Shi'ite because I have eyes and ears and I've actually lived in these various places through the years. There was no better place to watch a ballgame than the cheap seats in Memorial. The fans were loyal, generally respectful, often drunk and the best fans I've ever been around.

That pretty well boils it down. You make a lot of hyperbolic posts, but this one's good.