Angelos interview in PressBox

[rolliefingers]

Arguably the best pitcher in ML base is J. Santana. He gets less than $5mil. a year. The best position player is arguably A. Pujols. He gets $11mil. per.

So why isn't it absurd that a pitcher should be worth $15mil and a position player be worth $13 mil.? Why should I pay Zito $15 mil. per or Soriano $15 mil. per when I can upgrade the team at 1B, LF, and bullpen for less than $30 mil?

Because neither of those players have hit the open market? Because their teams are smart and locked them up to long-term deals before they got too expensive?

[SoBo]

We get it. You hate Peter Angelos with every cell, every fiber, every neuron, every thought, every molecule of your being. We understood that from your first post.

Now what? The rest of us Oriole fans are expected to agree to not talk, debate, discuss, and certainly not get excited about the team until new ownership arrives? Even if that's 20 years from now?

But John, don't you hate Angelos? I mean you cannot possibly like the way he's handled this organization. I just don't see what there is to get excited about. You're asking people to spend their hard earned cash on a lost cause. What has Angelos done in the last decade that would make you think things are going to change. I will always be an Orioles fan, but if you're asking me to dump two grand a year to go to games and cheer for a horrible product. I mean my GOD he just told all of us that we aren't as good as Red Sox fans. Thanks Pete. That's like Ford saying it's not our fault that our vehicles aren't selling as much as Toyota. It's our customers fault for not buying an inferior product. Yeah, try selling that to shareholders...

[Eddie_Ripken]

OK.....I've had a little time now to cool down. First thing is this.....anybody who did not take the statement about Boston fans being better than us as a complete slap in the face really needs to re-read it and think about why he said it. From that statement it is abundantly clear that he views fans solely as revenue generators and NOT as what we truely are, fans of a baseball team. That thinking is the direct opposite theory of why he SAID he bought the team in the first place. HE said he bought the team so ownership would remain local and the fans would continue to enjoy the benefits of an owner who felt the same about the team. He does not think that way now or there is no way he makes a statement that another franchises fans are better than ours. No way!!!!

Second.....I am with the sentiment of those that say there will be no change to the free agency approach this year. He SAYS he knows what the team needs(btw, if we have a 1stbaseman hitting only 20-25 homers we are in trouble...Millar has 15, what's 10 more goign to help.....need 40 from 1st) to compete but no where does he confirm that he will be spending any more money. He literally compares the needs he states to askign Santa Claus.

He is a lawyer out and out. Every answer was filled with double talk and no clear answers.

He actually blames the losing seasons on the fans, bad luck,the GM's he hired and the Nats....no where does he accept any blame. He accepts zero blame. He says "Losing is not my game".....if that is the case then someone needs to ask what game he is playing with the ownership office of this franchise because he clearly isn't taking the losing on the field seriously. He says one thing then does nothing about it.

I realize that we, as fans do not know what all it takes to be succesful as a baseball franchise but it's not like there aren't any examples to look at. The luck statement about A's and Twins is ludicrous. He manages to diss his FO and the FO of those teams with one fell swoop. We all realize a team can't just open the checkbook and spend foolishly and compete.....BUT he continues to, for several years in a row now to say that things will change and the franchise will "do something about it" and what he orders/allows them to do is sub-par, and it's becoming pretty clear that he is telling the fan base we will compete the his actions are for him to make money. That is wrong.

I am a season ticket holder and as of today I will not be buying them next year. And I won't until he and his family are no longer owners.

[DrungoHazewood]

But John, don't you hate Angelos? I mean you cannot possibly like the way he's handled this organization. I just don't see what there is to get excited about. You're asking people to spend their hard earned cash on a lost cause. What has Angelos done in the last decade that would make you think things are going to change. I will always be an Orioles fan, but if you're asking me to dump two grand a year to go to games and cheer for a horrible product. I mean my GOD he just told all of us that we aren't as good as Red Sox fans. Thanks Pete. That's like Ford saying it's not our fault that our vehicles aren't selling as much as Toyota. It's our customers fault for not buying an inferior product. Yeah, try selling that to shareholders...

Hate? I don't even know the man. I think he's been a poor owner, but that's a long way from what a many fans think.

I understand the dislike. I really do. But I don't think there's anything to be gained from losing all objectivity and interpreting every word he utters as vile treachery. Every single thing he says is wrong now.

That's what it's gotten to - he says the Sox have a great fanbase, Oriole fans take that to mean he thinks they're bumbling, fairweather idiots. He says the GMs he's hired have performed poorly, no one mentions it. He says the sky is blue, and Oriole fans say "of course it is you ($@#$ idiot, it's blue because you %&^*ing ruined the @#$ing perfectly good green sky we used to have at Memorial Stadium."

[frankpembleton]

If you're really getting upset by this interview you need to step back and think about it.

Look at the facts. The O's only significantly outdrew the Sox in the early and mid 90s, when OPACY was a wonder of the baseball world and the O's were mainly contending.

In the 60s and 70s when the O's were the best team in baseball the Sox often drew twice the fans the O's did. They at least outdrew the O's ever year of the 70s, even if it wasn't 2 times every season. And this was the so-called heyday of the rabid, diehard O's fan at Memorial Stadium.

The first game I ever went to in 1979 was against the Sox. It was something like the 4th-largest regular season crowd in Memorial Stadium history (my dad made a note in the program). The crowd was 49525. The place seated 54,000.

More recently the Sox have sold out Fenway at ridiculous prices for seasons on end. Smaller park, but double the cost. They gave up on a newer, bigger Fenway because they realized they could make just as much money tapping into the insane demand of their fans.

Even when OPACY was sold out every night we heard endless whining about how most of the people in the box seats were on the cell phone, not even paying attention to the game. We still hear folks talk about how they'd like to have Memorial Stadium back because everyone there was a real fan - all 13,000 of them a game in '71 - 8,000 less than the Sox who finished 18 games behind the Birds.

Sorry if this makes me some kind of traitor in your mind, but outside of Maryland nobody would say O's fans are better than Sox fans. And I doubt that argument has changed in 50 years.

If you want it to change you need to go to more games and get your friends and family and coworkers to go, too. If we're really better than the Sox we should be outdrawing them by 8,000 when we're 18 games behind them in the standings.

We can disagree about the merits of the Boston and Baltimore fan base since 1954. I contend that Baltimore suppported their team as well as Boston did over time given each team's circumstances from 1954 to 2004. You disagree and I accept that. It's hard to say who has been better because there are so many factors involved. I guess if you were looking at it objectively - the Red Sox fans supported their team better in the 70's while the O's fans supported their team better in the 90s. The 60's and 80's seem to be a wash. I think both sets of fans have shown incredible loyalty.

This is really not the point though. When Angelos took over the team in 1993 he inherited a fanbase willing to sell out a 47k seat stadium nearly every night. It continued this way for the better part of the next decade. Angelos had the insane demand of the fans that the Red Sox have now. Camden yards was basically printing money. The only thing that could kill this insane demand was his absolute mismanagement and failure as principal owner of the team. Well, he went and did just that - failed miserably. He has led the team through 9 consecutive losing seasons, endless PR mishaps and completely disassociated the team from the city that has supported this team since 1954. He took something that was great and turned it into something that noone cares about anymore. And yet he blames the fans for not supporting them.

In my opinion this is unacceptable.

[bgfield]

I mean my GOD he just told all of us that we aren't as good as Red Sox fans.

No he didn't. He said the Red Sox have the most die-hard, rabid fanbase of any baseball team. And if you were to poll everyone across the country, I'm sure the general public would agree.

[DrungoHazewood]

We can disagree about the merits of the Boston and Baltimore fan base since 1954. I contend that Baltimore suppported their team as well as Boston did over time given each team's circumstances from 1954 to 2004. You disagree and I accept that. It's hard to say who has been better because there are so many factors involved. I guess if you were looking at it objectively - the Red Sox fans supported their team better in the 70's while the O's fans supported their team better in the 90s. The 60's and 80's seem to be a wash. I think both sets of fans have shown incredible loyalty.

Agree completely.

This is really not the point though. When Angelos took over the team in 1993 he inherited a fanbase willing to sell out a 47k seat stadium nearly every night. It continued this way for the better part of the next decade. Angelos had the insane demand of the fans that the Red Sox have now. Camden yards was basically printing money.

But I don't think you can expect that would have continued indefinitely. Almost all stadiums have a honeymoon period, and all teams have down periods. With better performance they'd be drawing much better, but almost certainly not selling out every night.

The only thing that could kill this insane demand was his absolute mismanagement and failure as principal owner of the team. Well, he went and did just that - failed miserably. He has led the team through 9 consecutive losing seasons, endless PR mishaps and completely disassociated the team from the city that has supported this team since 1954. He took something that was great and turned it into something that noone cares about anymore. And yet he blames the fans for not supporting them.

In my opinion this is unacceptable.

That's pretty much true, too. But I also think you guys are reading a lot into his comments about blaming the fans.

[rolliefingers]

Hate? I don't even know the man. I think he's been a poor owner, but that's a long way from what a many fans think.

I understand the dislike. I really do. But I don't think there's anything to be gained from losing all objectivity and interpreting every word he utters as vile treachery. Every single thing he says is wrong now.

That's what it's gotten to - he says the Sox have a great fanbase, Oriole fans take that to mean he thinks they're bumbling, fairweather idiots. He says the GMs he's hired have performed poorly, no one mentions it. He says the sky is blue, and Oriole fans say "of course it is you ($@#$ idiot, it's blue because you %&^*ing ruined the @#$ing perfectly good green sky we used to have at Memorial Stadium."

Jon, he didn't say that. He said the Red Sox have THE BEST fans in baseball. As in, better than ours. There's no way to verify something like that (I don't think it's true, personally), but what kind of PR is that, for an owner to NOT say his fans are the best in baseball?

As for the GMs, there have been multiple, independent reports for years that say Angelos routinely overrules his baseball people on baseball decisions, not just payroll increases. The argument can be made (and has, ad nauseum) that it's hard to blame GMs for poor performance if the owner doesn't even let them do their jobs.

[Eddie_Ripken]

That's what it's gotten to - he says the Sox have a great fanbase, Oriole fans take that to mean he thinks they're bumbling, fairweather idiots. He says the GMs he's hired have performed poorly, no one mentions it. He says the sky is blue, and Oriole fans say "of course it is you ($@#$ idiot, it's blue because you %&^*ing ruined the @#$ing perfectly good green sky we used to have at Memorial Stadium."

[The] strongest baseball fans are, I think, the Boston fans.

Sorry, this statment leaves very little if any room for any other interpretation than he thinks the Boston fans are better than the O's fans and as an Orioles fan I take that as a complete and undeniable slap in my face. This man says this then wants me to come spend money on his team? No thanks.

[rolliefingers]

No he didn't. He said the Red Sox have the most die-hard, rabid fanbase of any baseball team. And if you were to poll everyone across the country, I'm sure the general public would agree.

The general public is wrong about most things, and they're wrong about this, too. The Red Sox's CORE fanbase is great, but just like the Yankees, they have tons of casual fans that just like them because they're good.

(Aside: I sat in front of a Yankee fan last Saturday who didn't recognize Octavio Dotel, then admitted that he didn't know who that was, nor that the Yankees had him. Yet, this guy was decked out in a friggin' Jeter jersey and doing 'Let's Go Yankees!' chants all day. I've had similar experiences with Sox fans. Diehard fans, my rear.)

[Sports Guy]

Hate? I don't even know the man. I think he's been a poor owner, but that's a long way from what a many fans think.

I understand the dislike. I really do. But I don't think there's anything to be gained from losing all objectivity and interpreting every word he utters as vile treachery. Every single thing he says is wrong now.

That's what it's gotten to - he says the Sox have a great fanbase, Oriole fans take that to mean he thinks they're bumbling, fairweather idiots. He says the GMs he's hired have performed poorly, no one mentions it. He says the sky is blue, and Oriole fans say "of course it is you ($@#$ idiot, it's blue because you %&^*ing ruined the @#$ing perfectly good green sky we used to have at Memorial Stadium."

I agree with this...I have been telling you guys for 5 years how bad he is because i saw his effect on the organization first hand. Many thought i was exxaggerating or had an ax to grind or whatever but he has shown me to be correct.

Now, that being said, let's just hope he is maybe turning the corner...I have said i felt we wouldn't win with PA unless all the young pitching develops. See if he proves me, and many others, wrong.

He admits alot of faults and you have to appreciate that.

[bgfield]

Did he admit any faults of his own?

A few months ago he said he was a bad owner because he didn't raise ticket prices.

[YardBird]

Oriole Magic broke the interview down and responded to each part of it.

There's some pure anger there.

I understand most of it. Angelos is a clown.

[rolliefingers]

Oriole Magic broke the interview down and responded to each part of it.

There's some pure anger there.

I understand most of it. Angelos is a clown.

Somebody show that man the spell-check button, for Godsakes.

[now]

Sorry, this statment leaves very little if any room for any other interpretation than he thinks the Boston fans are better than the O's fans and as an Orioles fan I take that as a complete and undeniable slap in my face. This man says this then wants me to come spend money on his team? No thanks.

I don't know how you equate "strongest" with "best." The objective evidence for "strongest" is in the daily sellouts. We might resent Boston fans for outnumbering Oriole fans even in Baltimore, but that's just more evidence that they're "stronger." Not "better," whatever that means. But stronger in their support of their team. The subjective part that can be debated perhaps is the "rabid" part, though again you have to respect the incredible patience of fans going 80 years between World Series titles.

There's nothing wrong with recognizing the strength of another team's fan base, and it has nothing to do with the quality of our own smaller fan base. There's really no basis at all for saying which fan base is "best," and that's not what PA said.

I don't defend Angeles for his record over the last decade, but I believe it doesn't help the discussion to put words in his mouth or say there's only one interpretation of his remarks.

correction: You didn't say "only one"...you said, "very little if any." : )