Tillman

[Moose Milligan]

My hope is based on (i) talent; (ii) prior minor league success; (iii) success this year; (iv) a huge uptick in stuff; and (v) first-hand experience watching his games this year.

Just in case you're "not sure" why, I mean.

Still not sure why. Big deal, he can do it in the minors.

I get it, you'd love to be right about him.

[ccbird]

So that last start is supposed to absolve him from anything he's done in previous years?

I'm not sure why anyone is continuing to hold out hope for him. He's never performed well in the big leagues on a consistent basis. Yes, he's had a few gems here and there, but guess what? So did Daniel CaBBrera.

Seattle was completely different than anything I had ever seen from Tillman. Unlike anything from his other "gems" in the big leagues. He was a new pitcher. Tonight certainly reminded me of the "old" Tillman. LuckyJim has watched him start in the minors and has said that he has clearly seen a "new" Tillman, more in line with the one we saw in Seattle. I'm really disappointed in tonight but for now I'm going to trust and hope that there really is a new and improved Tillman.

And to be clear, consistency might always be a problem and stop him from being a TOR starter. In fact, I fear it will. However, if there really is an improved Tillman I hope he can do it enough to be a #3 or #4 for us up here.

[Lucky Jim]

Still not sure why. Big deal, he can do it in the minors.

I get it, you'd love to be right about him.

Would you prefer to be wrong about him?

[Moose Milligan]

Would you prefer to be wrong about him?

I'd love to be wrong about Tillman. Unfortunately, I've got a small mountain of evidence to signify that I'm right. He's just not good.

[Moose Milligan]

Seattle was completely different than anything I had ever seen from Tillman. Unlike anything from his other "gems" in the big leagues. He was a new pitcher. Tonight certainly reminded me of the "old" Tillman. LuckyJim has watched him start in the minors and has said that he has clearly seen a "new" Tillman, more in line with the one we saw in Seattle. I'm really disappointed in tonight but for now I'm going to trust and hope that there really is a new and improved Tillman.

And to be clear, consistency might always be a problem and stop him from being a TOR starter. In fact, I fear it will. However, if there really is an improved Tillman I hope he can do it enough to be a #3 or #4 for us up here.

Yeah, but Tillman has had prior success in the minors. This is nothing new. He's AAAA fodder.

[ccbird]

Yeah, but Tillman has had prior success in the minors. This is nothing new. He's AAAA fodder.

Listen, I was there with you prior to the Seattle start. I was calling for him to be tried as a RP. I did see something from him in that Seattle game that I had never saw from him before. If nothing else, that start bought him the rest of this year in the big league rotation for me just to see if he can bottle that type of performance somewhat consistently. I can't say I'm real hopeful, but I'm at least open to giving him another extended chance.

[crissfan172]

Yeah, but Tillman has had prior success in the minors. This is nothing new. He's AAAA fodder.

Yeah...tons of AAAA pitchers with 95 mph fastballs and two other plus pitches.

He was hung out to dry by his defense tonight (shocking, I know), and then he couldn't make quality pitches to recover. He wasn't pitch efficient enough tonight, and that's his fault. The 6 runs he gave up following the error...not so much.

[Lucky Jim]

Yeah, but Tillman has had prior success in the minors. This is nothing new. He's AAAA fodder.

Why do you keep arguing against people who are optimistic/hopeful that a young pitcher will succeed? I mean, I get that you don't think it will happen, but what's the purpose? I'm just curious. Particularly when your only argument is "he hasn't done it at the major-league level" - I understand that's your litmus, but others don't limit themselves. I'm basing my take on what I consider to be substantial changes in his mechanics, approach and stuff - that's not nothing. You don't take any of that into consideration, as is your wont, but I don't think anyone here is trying to convince you that you're wrong, are they?

[Moose Milligan]

Listen, I was there with you prior to the Seattle start. I was calling for him to be tried as a RP. I did see something from him in that Seattle game that I had never saw from him before. If nothing else, that start bought him the rest of this year in the big league rotation for me just to see if he can bottle that type of performance somewhat consistently. I can't say I'm hopeful, but I'm at least open to giving him another extended chance.

I saw a good start, nothing more, nothing less...certainly nothing to hitch a wagon to and proclaim that he's turned a corner.

[ccbird]

I saw a good start, nothing more, nothing less...certainly nothing to hitch a wagon to and proclaim that he's turned a corner.

I disagree. He was dominant. He had never been dominant in any of his other starts I had ever seen before, including the 6 inning no hitter he had to start the '11 season in Tampa.

[Flash- bd]

Yeah, but Tillman has had prior success in the minors. This is nothing new. He's AAAA fodder.

Ahem:

Yes yes, Arrieta, Matusz, off with their heads! Their complete lack of rectitude is inexcusable. The Calvary is nothing but a cognomen for iniquitous sinners. Britton and Tillman, you are next, after your first bad start.

-07/01/2012

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/122972-Matusz-Optioned-To-Norfolk-After-The-Game

Moose, I'm still willing to bet Tillman finishes with an ERA <4.50 over 10+ starts.

[Moose Milligan]

Why do you keep arguing against people who are optimistic/hopeful that a young pitcher will succeed. I mean, I get that you don't think it will happen, but what's the purpose? I'm just curious. Particularly when your only argument is "he hasn't done it at the major-league level" - I understand that's your litmus, but others don't limit themselves. I don't think anyone here is trying to convince you that you're wrong, are they?

My litmus? No, it's the litmus of major league baseball...if you can't hang, you don't stick around for very long. Your litmus seems to be "oh I saw him pitch well in minor league games, he can still be good!"

I used to have hope and be optimistic about him, unfortunately that time has come and gone. He's had 37 starts in the majors across 4 seasons. He's never been consistent enough to make anyone want to keep him in the rotation for an extended stretch. He still has no command, as evidenced tonight. He's 24, he's not getting younger.

Sure, he's 6'5" and now he's got some zip to his fastball, a fastball he can't command at the big league level. And there are a litany of prospects who have matched that profile over the years who haven't stuck around for very long.

[LookitsPuck]

A very, very, very disappointing outing from Tillman, and couldn't come at a worse time. The rotation is in shambles, and you do this garbage against the Twins of all teams? Embarrassing.

[Moose Milligan]

Ahem:

-07/01/2012

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/122972-Matusz-Optioned-To-Norfolk-After-The-Game

Moose, I'm still willing to bet Tillman finishes with an ERA <4.50 over 10+ starts.

I know, I bumped that other thread. I was more concerned with ERA+ of under 100 but if you want to do an ERA of 4.50, that's fine.

You got damn lucky tonight those runs were unearned

[Lucky Jim]

My litmus? No, it's the litmus of major league baseball...if you can't hang, you don't stick around for very long. Your litmus seems to be "oh I saw him pitch well in minor league games, he can still be good!"

It's the litmus for hope? Really?