Josh Hamilton market update - 3 years $60-75 million

[Dark Helmet]

Where would you like the money to go if it's not on Hamilton? I still get the feeling that you want to spend just to spend and that just isn't smart.

There you go insinuating again. One of the places I would have put the money into is now in Cleveland. I would like either Saunders or Jackson on a 2 year deal or less. I don't want Morse, though at this point he might be the best they can do. I cant stand Swisher the person, but id take the player for 4/56M. Other than that, they might aswell just go with what they have and pray they find the gold at the end of the rainbow in back to back years.

[CA-ORIOLE]

1) I am a writer. With some pretty great credits.

2) I am not a troll. People throw that word around like G.W. Bush threw around "terrorist."

Beyond the payroll arguments, what burns me up is when folks say that the "high-priced" FA isn't worth their cost when we know how Hamilton does in OPACY. I am tired of the assertion that superstars won't bring in their worth. You sign a big star, more people show up, more money is generated and we could win a few more games. That's not a troll argument.

MSK

The fact that you've chosen to continually ignore/disregard the specific arguments related to our realistic budgetary constraints (not that you disagree with those constraints), indicates you are making a strawman argument. You are doing it again above and take it even further with comments that people are to stupid and/or Angelos Homers to understand what you do. It's a nonsensical argument that you've created for yourself and taken to ridiculous levels of stupidity.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Not much left after I named basically the entire starting 9. The relevance in Andino, is that Casilla isnt much of an upgrade if any. Nates production last year might not be a relevant, but it will be as irelevant again in 2013, unless he goes back to his pre 2010 form. A lot of what if's to count on. That's why I think it's a little premature to say this team doesn't need another bat.

Reynolds radically underperformed for most of the year, as did Hardy and Andino. Flaherty was useless for 3/4 of the season. Weiters is debatable, I'll grant you that. Injuries were rampant. Reimold missed almost the entire year, and Markakis missed over a third of it. Reynolds also missed a good bit of time. Even our backups like Nick Johnson and Taylor Teagarden were out for large chunks of time. Steve Tolleson, Omar Quintanilla, Lew Ford, and Endy Chavez started for weeks at a time and Betemit got 100 PAs against lefties because there just wasn't anyone else available.

And we still won 93 games. It's hard to imagine so many things going wrong again this year, especially with the depth that has been added- and I'm sure DD isn't done.

[waroriole]

Reynolds radically underperformed for most of the year, as did Hardy and Andino. Flaherty was useless for 3/4 of the season. Weiters is debatable, I'll grant you that. Injuries were rampant. Reimold missed almosg the entire year, and Markakis missed over a third of it. Reynolds also missed a good bit of time. Even our backups like Nick Johnson and Taylor Teagarden were out for large chunks of time. Steve Tolleson, Omar Quintanilla, Lew Ford, and Endy Chavez started for weeks at a time and Betemit got 100 PAs against lefties because there just wasn't anyone else available.

And we still won 93 games. It's hard to imagine so many thing going wrong again this year, especially with the depth that has been added and I'm sure DD isn't done.

Was last year your first as an O's fan?

[MemorialStadKid]

The fact that you've chosen to continually ignore/disregard the specific arguments related to our realistic budgetary constraints (not that you disagree with those constraints), indicates you are making a strawman argument. You are doing it again above and take it even further with comments that people are to stupid and/or Angelos Homers to understand what you do. It's a nonsensical argument that you've created for yourself and taken to ridiculous levels of stupidity.

I never said anyone was stupid. Where did I say that? Where?

I said that some people that argue against FAs claim that the person isn't ever worth the inflated price for their services. I don't get that argument at all. Especially for Hamilton who has had great success at OPACY.

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

Beyond the payroll arguments, what burns me up is when folks say that the "high-priced" FA isn't worth their cost when we know how Hamilton does in OPACY. I am tired of the assertion that superstars won't bring in their worth. You sign a big star, more people show up, more money is generated and we could win a few more games. That's not a troll argument.

It may not be a troll argument, but it's a simplistic one that completely glosses over the risks and likely outcomes of different players. Anyway, most free agents aren't worth what they get. Most are failures, a lot even in the short-term. All big-ticket free agent contracts are big risks, with significant downside. And for a team with the Orioles' payroll constraints the risks are magnified. Even you would have to admit someone with Hamilton's background, age, and price is a very high risk investment.

The idea that you just sign any star free agent and he'll automatically pay for himself with new revenues and wins... it doesn't make sense.

[Dark Helmet]

Reynolds radically underperformed for most of the year, as did Hardy and Andino. Flaherty was useless for 3/4 of the season. Weiters is debatable, I'll grant you that. Injuries were rampant. Reimold missed almost the entire year, and Markakis missed over a third of it. Reynolds also missed a good bit of time. Even our backups like Nick Johnsoand Taylor Teagarden were out for large chunks of time. Steve Tolleson, Omar Quintanilla, Lew Ford, and Endy Chavez started for wkeeks at a time and Betemit got 100 PAs against lefties because there just wasn't anyone else available.

And we still won 93 games. It's hard to imagine so many things going wrong again this year, especially with the depth that has been added- and I'm sure DD isn't done.

If the O's didn't need so many things to go right last year, I probably wouldn't be as cynical. We're just counting on a lot of guys with a huge track record. 2012 is the first season of his career that Jones didnt miss som time with an injury. Wieters is a kneel down away from an oblique or a foul tip from a broken hand. Over the last 15 years, I have seen mant things go wrong, that one would never expect to happen.

[DrungoHazewood]

Reynolds radically underperformed for most of the year, as did Hardy and Andino. Flaherty was useless for 3/4 of the season. Weiters is debatable, I'll grant you that. Injuries were rampant. Reimold missed almost the entire year, and Markakis missed over a third of it. Reynolds also missed a good bit of time. Even our backups like Nick Johnson and Taylor Teagarden were out for large chunks of time. Steve Tolleson, Omar Quintanilla, Lew Ford, and Endy Chavez started for weeks at a time and Betemit got 100 PAs against lefties because there just wasn't anyone else available.

And we still won 93 games. It's hard to imagine so many things going wrong again this year, especially with the depth that has been added- and I'm sure DD isn't done.

I think that was a fairly typical year. The only atypical part was the team's ability to overcome the standard-issue adversity. We've quoted a BP article recently that showed the O's were (arguably) 5th in AL East production lost to the DL in '12. Almost every team could produce a list similar to what you just typed.

[Crazysilver03]

I never said anyone was stupid. Where did I say that? Where?

I said that some people that argue against FAs claim that the person isn't ever worth the inflated price for their services. I don't get that argument at all. Especially for Hamilton who has had great success at OPACY.

MSK

Again. Do you this his great success has to deal with the fact that he was facing Oriole pitching?

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Was last year your first as an O's fan?

Heh. Touche'.

I just don't think it's anything to worry about right now and that we're better prepared to deal with it anyway in the unlikely event that it happens in back-to-back years.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I never said anyone was stupid. Where did I say that? Where?

I said that some people that argue against FAs claim that the person isn't ever worth the inflated price for their services. I don't get that argument at all. Especially for Hamilton who has had great success at OPACY.

MSK

Stupid, blind, brainwashed, whatever. I don't need to dig up all your quotes/impications here. It is pretty clear what you're doing. Your basic argument is that Angelos can/should spend more money and we should be signing more Free Agents. I doubt too many people would disagree with you and would love to have a larger payroll. We don't, so most people consider that reality and look at free agency differently with a smaller budget.

[Brendan25]

There you go insinuating again. One of the places I would have put the money into is now in Cleveland. I would like either Saunders or Jackson on a 2 year deal or less. I don't want Morse, though at this point he might be the best they can do. I cant stand Swisher the person, but id take the player for 4/56M. Other than that, they might aswell just go with what they have and pray they find the gold at the end of the rainbow in back to back years.

I wanted Reynolds back also but Reynolds not coming back has 0 to do with Peter Angelos or the Orioles not wanting to spend money. It has to do with them wanting Davis at 1B next year. DD wants Saunders back also but is letting the market settle. Just like he did with McLouth. If Saunders gets 2/20 I think DD passes and I would also. I'm not taking Swisher now that McLouth is back. It would be as the DH, and even if we offered that I don't think Swisher would come here knowing it would be as DH. Chris Davis is our 1B next year.

Who is it that you are mad with this offseason with the Orioles. You aren't happy with how things have gone. Is it Angelos' fault? Is it Duquettes? I know that you don't think this team is very good next year as constructed. I just still don't get what moves could have been made that werent.

[Brendan25]

I never said anyone was stupid. Where did I say that? Where?

I said that some people that argue against FAs claim that the person isn't ever worth the inflated price for their services. I don't get that argument at all. Especially for Hamilton who has had great success at OPACY.

MSK

Name three top free agents that signed top free agent contracts that was a key piece to their team winning the world series that is not on the Yankees or Red Sox.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I think that was a fairly typical year. The only atypical part was the team's ability to overcome the standard-issue adversity. We've quoted a BP article recently that showed the O's were (arguably) 5th in AL East production lost to the DL in '12. Almost every team could produce a list similar to what you just typed.

It was a bit of a double whammy, maybe a triple- injuries, underperformance, and lack of quality depth. We had almost no RH bats available to cover Betemit's and Thome's weakness against lefties. And we were still a league-average offense.

The depth issue has been addressed somewhat, and I expect that DD will add even more. Plus, young guys like Avery, Hoes, and Schoop may be able to step in and help later in the season.

[Mayor McCheese]

Name three top free agents that signed top free agent contracts that was a key piece to their team winning the world series that is not on the Yankees or Red Sox.

Randy Johnson to AZ is the only one I can really think of thats not a Yank/Sox.