O's consider Matsuzaka

[paulcoates]

If Boras and Matsuzaka want insane money and are threatening to go back to Japan, what is to stop the post winning team from asking Seibu to pay some of the posting fee back to matsuzaka as a signing bonus. Why should Seibu have all of the leverage. If they get a $50mil posting fee surely they would give $20mil to Matsuzaka to encourage him to sign. Seibu still gets $30mil or nothing. This is the creative negotiating that Angelos might just think of. Hey with this strategy just offer $55mil to make sure it gets done. Offer 6yrs/with 1mil per year and Seibu making up the difference that matsuzaka needs. Presto! Everybody wins.

because as far as the Lions are concerned, that money is theirs. They hold the money at that point and don't necessarily have to give any of it back. Worse case scenario is that they get the best Japanese pitcher back on their team. Plus, it is not the honorable thing to do. The team that would do something like that would probably be viewed as not dealing faithfully

[paulcoates]

Then it would be irresponsible not to bid $40 or $50m simply to block him.

its almost no different than the Aug 31st trade treadline. Steve Phillips said he claimed 100's of guys with no intention of ever dealing for them. Now, it is the norm. The sad thing is, with this "post" money, there is no free market for him. I am surprised it works this way. I would thing the MLBPA would go crazy about the fact that he is essentialy not a free agent.

I think with the NBA draft that some of these guys who come from Europe essentially owe their European team their European salary once they sign their NBA deal. And that is on the player. Not the team

[paulcoates]

Then it would be irresponsible not to bid $40 or $50m simply to block him.

I don't know if I would say it is irresponsible. He is just a regular man who is being screwed by the system if that is indeed what happens. Essentially, all ML teams could block any Japanese player from ever coming to the US (provided he is under contract with a Japanese team)

[NewMarketSean]

Do the O's lose the $50 million if they are unable to sign the guy and he goes back to Japan? If this is the case, Angelos would in no way, sacrifice $50 million just to keep the guy out of the AL EAST for 1 year.

[geschinger]

I don't know if I would say it is irresponsible. He is just a regular man who is being screwed by the system if that is indeed what happens. Essentially, all ML teams could block any Japanese player from ever coming to the US (provided he is under contract with a Japanese team)

It may not be the honorable thing to do, but I do think it would be irresponsible from a competetive standpoint not to do something that gives your team a better chance. While they still likely won't be able to compete w/the NYY for the division in 2007 there chances would be better if Mats wasn't pitching in pinstripes.

[TonySoprano]

Do the O's lose the $50 million if they are unable to sign the guy and he goes back to Japan? If this is the case, Angelos would in no way, sacrifice $50 million just to keep the guy out of the AL EAST for 1 year.

No, they get the money back.

[paulcoates]

It may not be the honorable thing to do, but I do think it would be irresponsible from a competetive standpoint not to do something that gives your team a better chance. While they still likely won't be able to compete w/the NYY for the division in 2007 there chances would be better if Mats wasn't pitching in pinstripes.

I don't think we'll every compete with the Yankees as long as:

1)Angelos is the owner

2)Steinbrenner is the owner

The Yankess have bottomless pockets. If someone sucks, they just trade or bench him and acquire a better player. I never thought they would be able to get rid of Irabu or Weaver and somehow they did it. They ate salary, but they just moved on and paid someone else a ridiculous contract

[bird watcher]

because as far as the Lions are concerned, that money is theirs. They hold the money at that point and don't necessarily have to give any of it back. Worse case scenario is that they get the best Japanese pitcher back on their team. Plus, it is not the honorable thing to do. The team that would do something like that would probably be viewed as not dealing faithfully

This is not a case of not dealing faithfully. This kind of thing happens all the time in Real Estate. Sure I will give you $800,000 for your house but I need help with closing costs and repairs to the house that was neglected. Net to seller is 760,000. Buyer actually gets cash out at closing. The real question is would they give up $30mil for one year of the best player in baseball just because they felt they were getting screwed because the post was actually $50mil. It is a technicality and a flaw in the rules. It is called creative financing in the business world.

[paulcoates]

Do the O's lose the $50 million if they are unable to sign the guy and he goes back to Japan? If this is the case, Angelos would in no way, sacrifice $50 million just to keep the guy out of the AL EAST for 1 year.

They get the money back, therefore any and every team could simply prevent any Japanese player from coming to the US.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it, however I feel bad for the guy. In baseball today, there are really only 2 quality Japanese players. To pay such a large post for a guy who has never proven himself at this level is flat out lunacy

[paulcoates]

This is not a case of not dealing faithfully. This kind of thing happens all the time in Real Estate. Sure I will give you $800,000 for your house but I need help with closing costs and repairs to the house that was neglected. Net to seller is 760,000. Buyer actually gets cash out at closing. The real question is would they give up $30mil for one year of the best player in baseball just because they felt they were getting screwed because the post was actually $50mil. It is a technicality and a flaw in the rules. It is called creative financing in the business world.

Except that in this case, it is a blindly accepted bid. If you were a realtor and put in a bid on a house at an auction, and outbid everyone else, only to go back to the buyer after the auction and say "Yeah, we bid 800k on the house, but really we want 50k of that money back", don't you think that is a little dishonest?

[bird watcher]

Except that in this case, it is a blindly accepted bid. If you were a realtor and put in a bid on a house at an auction, and outbid everyone else, only to go back to the buyer after the auction and say "Yeah, we bid 800k on the house, but really we want 50k of that money back", don't you think that is a little dishonest?

I don't think it is dishonest at all. If the bid process allows for that kind of dealing then it is within the rights of the buyer to negotiate it. If the Seller didn't want that then they should have all bidders sign a statement that all bids are as is and there is no negotiating and that if the buyer backs out then they owe some % of the bid by law (What is allowed here may vary by law). There would then be recourse by law. Besides, all contract offers are usually "contingent upon" all kinds of things that allow the final net price to be negotiated during the escrow period. Business can be a hard cruel world. It seems to me that if Seibu isn't willing to be creative like this then they are the ones playing hard ball.

[srock]

If you post $50 million dollars, or any other amount, and win the post, would this posting be added to the teams payroll for next year in terms of the luxury tax?

I suspect it would NOT, but if it does this may even the playing field between big market teams on the cusp of paying the tax and mid market teams who can pay that amount and not break the barrier.

[paulcoates]

I don't think it is dishonest at all. If the bid process allows for that kind of dealing then it is within the rights of the buyer to negotiate it. If the Seller didn't want that then they should have all bidders sign a statement that all bids are as is and there is no negotiating and that if the buyer backs out then they owe some % of the bid by law (What is allowed here may vary by law). There would then be recourse by law. Besides, all contract offers are usually "contingent upon" all kinds of things that allow the final net price to be negotiated during the escrow period. Business can be a hard cruel world. It seems to me that if Seibu isn't willing to be creative like this then they are the ones playing hard ball.

So, if you go to an auction, bid 800k and later tell the owners you want 50k back that is ok. How about the people who big right underneath you at 775k who didnt want any money back. Now who loses. Remember, this is a blind bid. The Japanese team doesnt get to choose who they deal with

[paulcoates]

If you post $50 million dollars, or any other amount, and win the post, would this posting be added to the teams payroll for next year in terms of the luxury tax?

I suspect it would NOT, but if it does this may even the playing field between big market teams on the cusp of paying the tax and mid market teams who can pay that amount and not break the barrier.

It can't. It isn't related to a players salary

[Flosman]

Do the O's lose the $50 million if they are unable to sign the guy and he goes back to Japan? If this is the case, Angelos would in no way, sacrifice $50 million just to keep the guy out of the AL EAST for 1 year.

This thread must be like the actual games are to you now NMS. You don't actually read it but make commentary based on the latest sound bite. Just kidding NMS.