This pretty much says it all about tonight

[Old#5fan]

Hosmer vs

RHP .267/.323/.422

LHP .333/.371/.472

Ok. with that knowledge (which I would presume Buck had) I would have brought in ODay or KRod and not Matusz.

[Old#5fan]

Congratulations it only took you seven posts in to use that ridiculous logic that gets used every single time people question OBVIOUS, and I mean OBVIOUS mismanagement of the bullpen. He had a nice fresh bullpen with a newly acquired setup/closer who has been pretty darn good against lefties. If he wanted to start the inning Chen ok, but allowing him to face the tie run, a guy who homered off him earlier in the game, with a man on was just not smart.

Buck is a great manager, but every once in a while he reminds us why he was fired from three other clubs. This isn't a black and white issue that he doesn't allow the starters to go long enough or any of that garbage logic either, this is a simple fact that there was no good reason to have Chen face Hosmer in theFRom 101+ 8th inning at 106 pitches when he has a fresh 8-man bullpen ready to finish off the game. If the relievers blow it, it's on them not Buck.

From 101+ pitches, batters hit .368/.400/.605/1.005 off Chen. Hosmer had already homered off Chen and is hitting .333/.371/.472/.843 off lefties this year versus .267/.323/.422/.745. Francisco Rodriguez has held lefties to a .102/.185/.184/.369 this year.

It was a mind-boggling poor decision and doesn't take but a look at the numbers to know it's not second guessing or Monday-morning QBing to say this was a terrible decision by Buck.

I love Buck as manager, and give him all the credit in the world for turning this team around, but Lord almighty he occasionally does some head scratching things when it comes to bullpen management.

This says it all right here. No way to possibly say it any better.

[mark_beckens]

So basically none of us outside of Mark_beckens would have left Chen in there but some of you find it defensible because Chen was "cruising". Ok, I disagree with it but I can accept that line of thinking.

I think that line of thinking will doom a manager more times than not though because I much rather use historical statistical data late in games instead of a hunch in order to get the best matchups. It doesn't mean it will work, but if you continue to put in the best statistical matchup late in games, statistically you are going to be successful more times than if you don't put in the best matchups.

I think Buck just thought the lefty-lefty matchup was good enough in the 8th inning and ignored Chen's historical stats after 100 pitches. This is not the first nor will it be the last time Buck ignores those stats. I honestly don't believe he puts much stock in pitch count related stats just judging by his managerial tendencies over the years.

For me, it's one of his weaknesses as a strategist. He's more of a hunch and momentum guy than I am. Then again, I'm self avowed Tony LaRussa-type matchup guy late in games.

How do I get singled out when I agreed with Frobby?

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/134913-This-pretty-much-says-it-all-about-tonight?p=3218912#post3218912

[coolbeans]

Guys, the main problem was not leaving Chen in the game. It was the pitch that he threw. It wasn't even a bad pitch. He threw it right to the glove where Wieters had set up. That is the main problem. They called the same exact pitch in the same exact location that Hosmer had absolutely crushed earlier in the game and he absolutely crushed it again. Can anyone explain what they were thinking? That pitch was probably less than an inch from where the other one was and they threw it on purpose. That is my only problem. Now, I do wish Buck would have stuck to his routine of pulling pitchers if they allow a baserunner, but that is secondary to purposely throwing the same pitch to the same guy who hit it out earlier.

[DrungoHazewood]

Guys, the main problem was not leaving Chen in the game. It was the pitch that he threw. It wasn't even a bad pitch. He threw it right to the glove where Wieters had set up. That is the main problem. They called the same exact pitch in the same exact location that Hosmer had absolutely crushed earlier in the game and he absolutely crushed it again. Can anyone explain what they were thinking? That pitch was probably less than an inch from where the other one was and they threw it on purpose. That is my only problem. Now, I do wish Buck would have stuck to his routine of pulling pitchers if they allow a baserunner, but that is secondary to purposely throwing the same pitch to the same guy who hit it out earlier.

Obviously the problem wasn't that Buck left Chen in for a situation where batters routinely OPS 1.100 off of him. It was that Matt Wieters is a terrible pitch caller. Hell, maybe the reason Chen isn't up there throwing zeros in after 13 innings is Matt Wieters' pitch calling abilities degrade as the game progresses!

[RussellStSports]

The theory I support the least here is that Wieters called a bad pitch.

I don't like that Chen was left in there. I would have brought him out for the 8th but once he left that ball up to get roped for a single, he should have been pulled. We have such a fresh bullpen and that's something we needed to take advantage of. I was thinking Matusz for that situation, and then O'Day to finish out the inning, and bring JJ out in the 9th.

[Frobby]

Obviously the problem wasn't that Buck left Chen in for a situation where batters routinely OPS 1.100 off of him. It was that Matt Wieters is a terrible pitch caller. Hell, maybe the reason Chen isn't up there throwing zeros in after 13 innings is Matt Wieters' pitch calling abilities degrade as the game progresses!

This strikes me as uncharactersitic of you. I haven't gone back to watch a replay of that at bat, but if coolbeans did so and is correct that the pitch was right where Wieters wanted it and was the pitch that he called, then I do have to wonder if Chen's pitch count was relevant to the outcome. After all, Hosmer hit a home run in the first inning when Chen's pitch count was very low. Looking at pitch f/x, it was in a similar spot to the pitch thrown for the first HR, though the first one was actually a little outside the strike zone whereas the second one was right on the black and 6 inches above the knees. Certainly not an awful pitch location from the looks of it, unless that's a spot on which Hosmer feasts, in which case you have to question why that location was called.

[LocoChris]

This strikes me as uncharactersitic of you. I haven't gone back to watch a replay of that at bat, but if coolbeans did so and is correct that the pitch was right where Wieters wanted it and was the pitch that he called, then I do have to wonder if Chen's pitch count was relevant to the outcome. After all, Hosmer hit a home run in the first inning when Chen's pitch count was very low. Looking at pitch f/x, it was in a similar spot to the pitch thrown for the first HR, though the first one was actually a little outside the strike zone whereas the second one was right on the black and 6 inches above the knees. Certainly not an awful pitch location from the looks of it, unless that's a spot on which Hosmer feasts, in which case you have to question why that location was called.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_07_24_balmlb_kcamlb_1&mode=wrap#gid=2013_07_24_balmlb_kcamlb_1&mode=video

One of those videos is the second Hosmer home run, and clearly Wieters is set up inside and that's where Chen threw the ball. Like I said earlier Hosmer stands far off the plate so you have to pitch him away. It doesn't mean Wieters is a bad pitch caller, it just means he may have made a mistake on that particular pitch. It happens. If Chen pitches him away he is probably out.

[DrungoHazewood]

This strikes me as uncharactersitic of you. I haven't gone back to watch a replay of that at bat, but if coolbeans did so and is correct that the pitch was right where Wieters wanted it and was the pitch that he called, then I do have to wonder if Chen's pitch count was relevant to the outcome. After all, Hosmer hit a home run in the first inning when Chen's pitch count was very low. Looking at pitch f/x, it was in a similar spot to the pitch thrown for the first HR, though the first one was actually a little outside the strike zone whereas the second one was right on the black and 6 inches above the knees. Certainly not an awful pitch location from the looks of it, unless that's a spot on which Hosmer feasts, in which case you have to question why that location was called.

Sorry, forgot the smiley. The post I responded to indicated the problem wasn't Chen being in a bad situation but rather a bad pitch (called by Wieters). Which I think is kind of ridiculous.

[Frobby]

Yeah, that's the point. Funny, but I started to write a post similar to Frobby's and then changed my mind. Now that I see his, I'll join in. If the 2nd homerun pitch was called for in the same spot and was the same pitch as the first homerun, wouldn't you question the pitch and location called for on that pitch. That's not to say Chen should have been pitching (although coolbeans is saying that). It's a separate issue for me. Both homerun pitches were in the same spot, virtually. I would think they would have tried to stay away from that spot.

Just to add a little fuel to this fire, take a look at this map of Hosmer's hot zones: http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/hotzones/_/id/30993/eric-hosmer Low and in is a spot he likes pretty well so long as it's a strike.

[coolbeans]

Obviously the problem wasn't that Buck left Chen in for a situation where batters routinely OPS 1.100 off of him. It was that Matt Wieters is a terrible pitch caller. Hell, maybe the reason Chen isn't up there throwing zeros in after 13 innings is Matt Wieters' pitch calling abilities degrade as the game progresses!

I didn't say that Typically, Wieters is the best there is behind the plate. However, that pitch was delivered right to the mitt and it was the same exact pitch Hosmer crushed earlier. Maybe that's the pitch the scouting report said to throw, I have no clue. My main point was that the pitch bothered me much more than Chen still being in the game even though I think Chen should have been pulled when the previous batter got on base. They had thrown several pitches outside and I saw Wieters setting up inside and I started to cringe because I remembered that he had crushed an inside fastball earlier.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I thought Hosmer's post game comments were pretty interesting (MLB Network I think). He stated that Chen was very hard to pick up and hit. He was very aware that Chen throws approximately 70% fastballs and that he was up there guessing fastball all the way. Said he didn't care how ridiculous he looked on an offspeed pitch.

[Zerokarma]

Take a look at what the MFY's did today with Kuroda, and I think that is exactly what the O's should have done yesterday with Chen. Get through 7 at about 100 pitches and then hand it to the pen.

The bullpen is not as good as it was last year, but what is the point of bringing in KRod as your 8th inning guy if you get in a close game, have a starter that has a tendency to struggle around 100 pitches, and you decide not to use him and JJ to shut things down and win the game?

Maybe everyone figured that Chen was doing well and on a roll, so why change anything....but why maintain a large bullpen if you aren't going to use it?

[Ommaculate]

I didn't say that Typically, Wieters is the best there is behind the plate. However, that pitch was delivered right to the mitt and it was the same exact pitch Hosmer crushed earlier. Maybe that's the pitch the scouting report said to throw, I have no clue. My main point was that the pitch bothered me much more than Chen still being in the game even though I think Chen should have been pulled when the previous batter got on base. They had thrown several pitches outside and I saw Wieters setting up inside and I started to cringe because I remembered that he had crushed an inside fastball earlier.

Replace "Hosmer" in this post with "Ibanez". Remind you of anything?

[eddie83]

Replace "Hosmer" in this post with "Ibanez". Remind you of anything?

I think the guys on the mound realize where they want the ball to go. No pitcher is trying to find the happy zone for the hitter. They both made bad pitches.