Churchill's latest - Jones and Bedard

[33rdst]

Why is there a difference?

Bedard is suposed to stay around to promote the "unity" of the team despite being too injured to pitch but Loewen doesn't have to? At least be consistent.

This isn't about "promoting" unity. It's about being unified. In the same situation I don't believe Millar would have left. Guthrie cetainly didn't.

The bottom line is, almost always, when players are on the DL for a long time, they usually aren't with the team for the day-to-day. Players will quite often say that the mentality is that when someone is hurt, you have to play without them, so you need to think of it as if they are completely gone, and thats often easier when they physically are gone. Criticizing Bedard for leaving the team when he was injured is so laughably ridiculous that it defies description. It is a completely unjustified criticism and is clearly a case of people who simply don't like Bedard's personality/demeanor trying to find some reason to bash him.

You can go back and check my posts, I was a proponent of keeping Bedard. I opposed the idea of trading him and defended keeping him as part of the future core of this team. I have nothing against Bedard personally.

Loewen got injured much earlier then Bedard. therefore, I don't see their situations as analegous. The analogy I would use relative to Bedard's behavior is Guthrie. Guthrie and Bedard were both shut down at about the same time. Guthrie chose to stay with the team Bedard did not. For me Guthrie demonstrated team leadership Bedard did not.

To your point about critizing Bedard for being injured. I'm not sure about the extent of his injury when he left. I recall it being reported that Bedard wanted to come back and pitch. The team would not allow him to. Bedard left the team subsequent to that.

Finally, you may find it ridiculus to hold Bedard accountable for his commitment to the team I don't.

[Mackus]

You can go back and check my posts, I was a proponent of keeping Bedard. I opposed the idea of trading him and defended keeping him as part of the future core of this team. I have nothing against Bedard personally.

Loewen got injured much earlier then Bedard. therefore, I don't see their situations as analegous. The analogy I would use relative to Bedard's behavior is Guthrie. Guthrie and Bedard were both shut down at about the same time. Guthrie chose to stay with the team Bedard did not. For me Guthrie demonstrated team leadership Bedard did not.

To your point about critizing Bedard for being injured. I'm not sure about the extent of his injury when he left. I recall it being reported that Bedard wanted to come back and pitch. The team would not allow him to. Bedard left the team subsequent to that.

Finally, you may find it ridiculus to hold Bedard accountable for his commitment to the team I don't.

Guthrie and Bedard are bad comparisons, because Guthrie wasn't hurt as bad. He was able to come back from his injury and make a final start, Bedard was not.

How about Tejada? He wasn't always with the team when he was out with his broken wrist. Is he a poor team leader?

What I find ridiculous is the absurd conclusion that if a player leaves when he's injured, then he's a poor teammate. Thats a crazy opinion.

[RShack]

So then which of the following were most responsible (IYO) for Bedard not considering resigning:

1) Money

2) Doesn't want to play in Baltimore

3) The lack of a competitive team in Baltimore

4) Other?

I say there's a big element of "other".

IMO, the O's have had quite a little streak of bizarro seasons in which weird and depressing stuff happened. During this little streak, the team ended up with a worse record at the end that in prolly should have. A lot of that goes beyond what you can blame on anybody, a lot of it was just bizarre. This past year, it was the Great Pitching Meltdown (consisting of the 8th-inning Plague combined with the 2nd-half parade of kid-pitchers who got off the bus doing things wrong). By the end of the season, everybody wanted to blow their brains out. The previous seasons each featured their own bizarre story. I think attitudes about staying would be way way different if they just had a season that ended on a good note instead of a depressing note. While there's plenty of reason to diss FO behavior for most of last 25 years, the last few seasons have been downright weird. Stuff happened that made everybody feel like the Titanic had somehow managed to hit an iceberg clear down in the warm Caribbean Sea. One year of bad-weird stuff is one thing. You rack up a few in a row, and people wanna bail, just to get away from it.

As for those who are making a federal case about Erik going home after the team shut him down, I'd be kinda curious about how many of the people saying that watched all the O's ballgames on TV over the last 2 weeks of the season. Loewen went home too. Maybe we can start dissing Canadians in general?

[33rdst]

Guthrie and Bedard are bad comparisons, because Guthrie wasn't hurt as bad. He was able to come back from his injury and make a final start, Bedard was not.

How about Tejada? He wasn't always with the team when he was out with his broken wrist. Is he a poor team leader?

What I find ridiculous is the absurd conclusion that if a player leaves when he's injured, then he's a poor teammate. Thats a crazy opinion.

Frankly I'm not sure about how injured he was. It's not that he's necessarily a poor team mate. He's just not a leader. Do you think the rest of these guys enjoyed going through that abortion at the end of the year.

Another point I'd like to make about Bedard bailing last fall as it relates to current events. He's made it be known, that he's going to bail on this team again as soon as he gets the chance. That's one of the main reasons he's going to be traded in the next week or two.

[Mackus]

So now you are claiming that he made up the injury and wasn't actually hurt? Or at the very least you are implying that he was healthy enough to pitch and just chose to go home otherwise.

Outstanding.

[33rdst]

So now you are claiming that he made up the injury and wasn't actually hurt? Or at the very least you are implying that he was healthy enough to pitch and just chose to go home otherwise.

Outstanding.

No he was definitely injured. That was clearly reported. I said I just recalled that it was reported that he wanted to return before the end of the season but I could be mistaken about that.

Look let's face it. You want to apologize for Bedard leaving the team when things were tough and I want to hold him accontable for it.

[Mackus]

Look let's face it. You want to apologize for Bedard leaving the team when things were tough and I want to hold him accontable for it.

1970 already said it, but there is nothing that needs to be apologized for. Players leave teams when they get hurt all the time. Why aren't you criticizing them? Why is it only Bedard who is abandoning his team and every other injured player who rehabs away from the team is getting off scot free?

[RShack]

Look let's face it. You want to apologize for Bedard leaving the team when things were tough and I want to hold him accontable for it.

You wanna hold Loewen accountable for the same thing?

Or are you playing pick-and-choose about who you hold accountable?

How does that work? Guys you're down-on *are* accountable, and guys you like *aren't* accountable?

What does "accountable" even mean here? Hunting for stuff that reinforces the attitude you've already got... about somebody else's attitude?

ps: If you wanna ship Loewen out of town for the same thing, then I withdraw what I just said.

[SevisonJN]

It bothers me more when Bedard asks to leave some of the games he pitches in. I could only watch the bullpen blow so many of my wins before I begged to stay in games. The thing with Bedard is that most FO's think that he would not do those types of things on a new team. I have never seen an I don't care attitude translate into his type of stuff. He doesn't want to be in Baltimore, Roberts doesn't want to rebuild. If the Orioles do not trade them both then they will regret it in two years. If Seattle is willing to offer Jones, Truinfel, Tillman, Sherrill/Chen then make the deal. You are not going to get a better package from anyone else. If you can toss in Roberts for Clement and Sherrill/Chen the make this thing one big block buster.

[33rdst]

This is the mistake you are making. No one is apologzing for Bedard - there's no need whatsoever to apologize.

Answer one question honestly. If he had signed an extension before the season or midseason, would you still be criticizing him the way you are?

You're stuck on the idea that I somehow dislike Bedard. You're mistaken. I think his behavior at the end of the year was indicative of his commitment to this team. Therefore, his current behavior and position with regard to his future with this team is consistent with how he behaved.

To answer your question "honestly" I would have been happy that we were able to retain one of the most talented players in the game but I still would have had a problem with how he behaved in September.

[33rdst]

You wanna hold Loewen accountable for the same thing?

Or are you playing pick-and-choose about who you hold accountable?

How does that work? Guys you're down-on *are* accountable, and guys you like *aren't* accountable?

What does "accountable" even mean here? Hunting for stuff that reinforces the attitude you've already got... about somebody else's attitude?

ps: If you wanna ship Loewen out of town for the same thing, then I withdraw what I just said.

For crying out loud, Loewen got hurt on May 4 and had surgery. The better analogy, if you want to make comparisons is Guthrie. He could have bailed at the end of the year but he asked to pitch again in a meaningless game. That 's leadership in my opinion. That's a teammate.

[Sports Guy]

For crying out loud, Loewen got hurt on May 4 and had surgery. The better analogy, if you want to make comparisons is Guthrie. He could have bailed at the end of the year but he asked to pitch again in a meaningless game. That 's leadership in my opinion. That's a teammate.

Your argument is very tiresome.

Are you a medical expert? Do you know if Bedard and Guthrie had the same severity of the injury?

Bottom line is Bedard did something that many players do at the end of seasons...They leave when they know the season is over and their team isnt going into the playoffs. It happens every year, in every sport, all the time.

So, for you to pick on Bedard shows you have a problem with him.

[Mackus]

For crying out loud, Loewen got hurt on May 4 and had surgery. The better analogy, if you want to make comparisons is Guthrie. He could have bailed at the end of the year but he asked to pitch again in a meaningless game. That 's leadership in my opinion. That's a teammate.

No, a better comparison is Hernandez or Tejada. Those guys weren't always around either when they were hurt. Shouldn't you be bashing those guys for being poor leaders?

Guthrie rehabbed with the team because he had a short-term injury and knew he could come back after a few weeks rest. Bedard's injury was more severe.

The bottom line is when players get injured and will be out for long periods, they don't usually stay and travel with the team.

[Sports Guy]

No, a better comparison is Hernandez or Tejada. Those guys weren't always around either when they were hurt. Shouldn't you be bashing those guys for being poor leaders?

Guthrie rehabbed with the team because he had a short-term injury and knew he could come back after a few weeks rest. Bedard's injury was more severe.

The bottom line is when players get injured and will be out for long periods, they don't usually stay and travel with the team.

Right...It just got blown up because it was the end of the season and he left.

If he left in June, 33rd St wouldn't even say anything about it.

It is just like when someone starts the season 0-20. When a player does that, it is panic time.

If they go 0-20 in July, it barely gets mentioned.

[33rdst]

No, a better comparison is Hernandez or Tejada. Those guys weren't always around either when they were hurt. Shouldn't you be bashing those guys for being poor leaders?

Guthrie rehabbed with the team because he had a short-term injury and knew he could come back after a few weeks rest. Bedard's injury was more severe.

The bottom line is when players get injured and will be out for long periods, they don't usually stay and travel with the team.

Bedard didn't leave for a week and come back ,he went home for the year. Guthrie was given an out, if you recall Trembley didn't want him to pitch, he chose stay and pitch.