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Dempsey Accuses Toronto of Stealing Signs


brianod

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In the post game, Dempsey accused Toronto of stealing signs, not only recently but all the way back to when he played. Worthy of investigation or Meh?
I think Dempsey is full of beans. I wonder what proof he has or thinks he has?

Yeah, at times, Dempsey can be the proverbial anti-Palmer ....... very much a homer, as opposed to the unusually highly objective (particularly for a guy that pitched 19 seasons for the team that he is announcing for) Palmer.

I still like him (Dempsey) a lot, though.

Variety is the spice of like (homer announcers, objective announcers, announcers that fall somewhere in between, etc.)

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OK...I just checked some stats for Toronto:

2011:

Home - 103 HR & .759 OPS

Away - 83 HR & .700 OPS

2012:

Home - 102 HR & .740 OPS

Away - 96 HR & .693 OPS

2013:

Home - 95 HR & .759 OPS

Away - 90 HR & .699 OPS

2014:

Home - 11 HR & .791 OPS

Away - 10 HR & .660 OPS

So it seems like they are a definitely more productive at home, but I don't think it's enough to suggest they are cheating.

Not only are they that much more productive at home, other teams visiting them don't get the same bump, like they would at, say, Coors.

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A quick Google search would find a lot of articles about this subject from various teams accusing Toronto (New York, Baltimore, etc.), players (Hammel, Russell Martin, etc.), managers (Girardi), with statistical evidence showing the surge in power there for the Jays versus away, amongst other things like anecdotal evidence, pictures taken of supposed sign stealers, etc. One thing is for sure...they've been caught a couple times. The question is: how often do they do it?

This conclusion doesn't follow from the evidence listed. It is not at all a sure thing, as everything you listed is either an accusation or anecdotal. It would only be a sure thing if multiple former Blue Jays admitted that the team cheats. But, as far as I know, nothing like that has happened. Everything else is speculation.

That said, they very well could be cheating. I don't know of any other team that the accusation keeps resurfacing. So it's certainly worth keeping an eye on. But as I said earlier, I would think an operation like this, which would require the vast majority of team to know what's going on to be effective (unlike, say, the Patriot's spygate), would eventually be leaked, considering how much flux there is in a major league roster.

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I'll probably get slammed for this -- I've never understood what was so wrong with stealing the other team's signs. As a practice, I would personally rate it morally above a passing baserunner yelling "I got it!" in order to flummox a defender who's tracking a pop-up.

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I'll probably get slammed for this -- I've never understood what was so wrong with stealing the other team's signs. As a practice, I would personally rate it morally above a passing baserunner yelling "I got it!" in order to flummox a defender who's tracking a pop-up.

Players on the field stealing signs is not a problem with me.

Having plants in the stands stealing signs and relaying them to the team somehow IS a major problem. It's cheating, plain and simple.

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I'll probably get slammed for this -- I've never understood what was so wrong with stealing the other team's signs. As a practice, I would personally rate it morally above a passing baserunner yelling "I got it!" in order to flummox a defender who's tracking a pop-up.

Or the 3rd baseman yelling "Go." Fooling the running tagging up to leave just before the ball was actually caught.

We had a trick play in high school, the CF would run in, the catcher would throw the ball high and the guy stealing 2nd, would think the catcher made an error, and would round 2nd and head for third, but of course, by the time he commits to third, the CF throws the ball to him and he is out.

Then, there is the hidden ball trick and fooling the runner on first.

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Players on the field stealing signs is not a problem with me.

Having plants in the stands stealing signs and relaying them to the team somehow IS a major problem. It's cheating, plain and simple.

Ok, I go along with that...spies in the stands aren't actually playing the game. Then how come it's verboten for a batter to take a peek at where the catcher is setting up?

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Dempsey accuses Toronto of stealing signs, and your mother accuses my mother of waxing her upper lip.

Your mother waxes her upper lip?

She has for years Clark.

Yeah, and it's about my mother accusing your mother of buying cheap hot dogs, and your mother accusing my mother of waxing her upper lip, and then, they don't speak to-- >> your mother waxes her upper lip?

She has for years.

It doesn't show.

I don't know, sparky.

Classic.

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