SBNATION: Why Ex-Oriole Bobby Grich will never make the HOF (+ why Jeter should not be first ballot)

[ledzepp8]

Then why did you enter the conversation about HOF worthiness?

This thread is supposed to be about Schoop. Maybe we can start a new one about Jeter vs. Grich.

To be fair, this kind of sprung from another discussion that Weams was having in one of the Jeter threads, which is why I joined in. I hadn't really noted that Weams, in this thread, made the case that Grich was more HOF worthy. I looked at it as he was saying he was better than Jeter, which I said a case could be made to support that. That being said, I stand by what you quoted. Just because the voters might not put him in the HOF doesn't make Grich unworthy. That's the entire point. A strong case could be made that Grich was better than or at least on par with Jeter. Grich is not even thought of for the HOF, while media created hype around Jeter has made him undoubtedly a first ballot pick.

[weams]

Who is more HOF worthy is not the same question as who is more likely to be voted into the HOF. I'm not slighting Jeter in this argument. I'm just demonstrating that the fairy-tale that has been created in regards to Jeter and his godlike prowess, is ridiculous. Especially when you can take a guy like Grich, who has pretty much been forgotten by anyone besides Orioles fans, who should be in the HOF, and whom a case could be made was at least on par with and/or possibly better than Jeter.

Frobby is right. We deify Eddie. He did not accumulate much WAR in the final seven or eight year of his career. Of course there was that magical age 39 season.

G AB R H 2B 3B HR GRSL RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG

113 436 68 141 21 0 21 0 82 39 5 65 0 5 0 12 .323 .375 .516

[DrungoHazewood]

Who is more HOF worthy is not the same question as who is more likely to be voted into the HOF. I'm not slighting Jeter in this argument. I'm just demonstrating that the fairy-tale that has been created in regards to Jeter and his godlike prowess, is ridiculous. Especially when you can take a guy like Grich, who has pretty much been forgotten by anyone besides Orioles fans, who should be in the HOF, and whom a case could be made was at least on par with and/or possibly better than Jeter.

Not that it's right, but happens. Lou Whitaker was probably a more valuable player than Ernie Banks. Most folks probably think of Banks as an inner circle HOFer, Whitaker will probably have to wait to be considered by the Vet's Committee in the 2020s or 2030s and beyond.

[weams]

To be fair, this kind of sprung from another discussion that Weams was having in one of the Jeter threads, which is why I joined in. I hadn't really noted that Weams, in this thread, made the case that Grich was more HOF worthy. I looked at it as he was saying he was better than Jeter, which I said a case could be made to support that. That being said, I stand by what you quoted. Just because the voters might not put him in the HOF doesn't make Grich unworthy. That's the entire point. A strong case could be made that Grich was better than or at least on par with Jeter. Grich is not even thought of for the HOF, while media created hype around Jeter has made him undoubtedly a first ballot pick.

I don't really think he is more HOF worthy. I got carried away. I just think they are similar players.

[weams]

I don't really think he is more HOF worthy. I got carried away. I just think they are similar players.

Roy thinks it is preposterous that his friend Grich and Jeter should even be mentioned together. And I just wanted to show him that he needs to have a bit more respect when chowing down with Bobby.

[DrungoHazewood]

If we are going to use WAR to judge who was the best player and deserving Hall of Famer: was Bobby Grich (70.9 rWAR) better than Eddie Murray (68.3)? weams, do you hold that opinion? Roy?

I think that to the best of our knowledge Eddie and Grich had very similar impacts on their teams over the course of their careers.

[weams]

To be fair, this kind of sprung from another discussion that Weams was having in one of the Jeter threads, which is why I joined in. I hadn't really noted that Weams, in this thread, made the case that Grich was more HOF worthy. I looked at it as he was saying he was better than Jeter, which I said a case could be made to support that. That being said, I stand by what you quoted. Just because the voters might not put him in the HOF doesn't make Grich unworthy. That's the entire point. A strong case could be made that Grich was better than or at least on par with Jeter. Grich is not even thought of for the HOF, while media created hype around Jeter has made him undoubtedly a first ballot pick.

The Jeter hype does get to me. Mostly because he is not near the player Cal was.

[weams]

Would be nice to see Price go to the Yankees for a few months to play next to Jeter.

And this friends, is why the Jeterian Love Fest MUST be stopped!

[weams]

Eddie Murray was a player back when 500 homers and 3000 hits still meant something. It was like an automatic Cooperstown Bell Ring. That could not be ignored.

[El Gordo]

Eddie Murray was a player back when 500 homers and 3000 hits still meant something. It was like an automatic Cooperstown Bell Ring. That could not be ignored.

I would think it still does considering it is not likely to happen again. Maybe Pujols. After him who? 500 HR? yes. 3000 hits? Yes. Both? not likely.

[Can_of_corn]

I would think it still does considering it is not likely to happen again. Maybe Pujols. After him who? 500 HR? yes. 3000 hits? Yes. Both? not likely.

Any reason you don't think Trout can do it? (too many walks?)

Per 162 193H 32HR

At 162 g/yr that puts him over the threshold in 16 seasons. So if he plays 20...

[weams]

Any reason you don't think Trout can do it? (too many walks?)

Per 162 193H 32HR

At 162 g/yr that puts him over the threshold in 16 seasons. So if he plays 20...

Yeah. Fred Lynn through age 28. Pujols through age 30. Things happen.

[Satyr3206]

To be fair, this kind of sprung from another discussion that Weams was having in one of the Jeter threads, which is why I joined in. I hadn't really noted that Weams, in this thread, made the case that Grich was more HOF worthy. I looked at it as he was saying he was better than Jeter, which I said a case could be made to support that. That being said, I stand by what you quoted. Just because the voters might not put him in the HOF doesn't make Grich unworthy. That's the entire point. A strong case could be made that Grich was better than or at least on par with Jeter. Grich is not even thought of for the HOF, while media created hype around Jeter has made him undoubtedly a first ballot pick.

This is it in a nutshell. I saw both play. Grich was the better fielder. Jeter the better average hitter. Grich had more power. I would have to give the edge to Grich but he didn't play in NY, or during the internet era. As for the postseason counting that would be almost impossible and unfair. There are 24 other guys on the roster. Do you reward the ones that had better management or GM's in place? Ernie Banks and Ted Williams come to mind. My bottom line is I think Jeter may be the most over hyped baseball player in history. And that's saying something.

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah. Fred Lynn through age 28. Pujols through age 30. Things happen.

Sure things happen but I wouldn't dismiss his chances. He is certainly the type of talent that can do it.

And he started young enough.

[weams]

Sure things happen but I wouldn't dismiss his chances. He is certainly the type of talent that can do it.

And he started young enough.

Absolutely. He's a lot like Mantle.