SBNATION: Why Ex-Oriole Bobby Grich will never make the HOF (+ why Jeter should not be first ballot)

[SteveA]

The hits are the only thing that has anything to do with how good of a player he is.

And is that all the HoF is about? Simply "how good of a player he is".

If so, they should rename it the Hall of Statistical Excellence.

[Frobby]

I would think it still does considering it is not likely to happen again. Maybe Pujols. After him who? 500 HR? yes. 3000 hits? Yes. Both? not likely.

Any reason you don't think Trout can do it? (too many walks?)

Per 162 193H 32HR

At 162 g/yr that puts him over the threshold in 16 seasons. So if he plays 20...

Yeah. Fred Lynn through age 28. Pujols through age 30. Things happen.

If Alex Rodriguez gets back on the field, he's only 61 hits away from 3000 and he's well past 600 HR. Pujols is 34 and has the 500 HR already, to go with 2454 hits. Miguel Cabrera is only 31 and has 2106 hits and 379 HR. He's a pretty good bet to reach both milestones unless he has a career-ending injury. I won't be surprised to see all three of these guys make it.

Remembering that you don't have to have amazing per-year totals if your career starts early enough, I'd say that any of Trout, Harper and Machado could have a shot. Harper is having kind of a lost season, but he's still got a big head start on most major leaguers. Manny will probably never be a huge HR guy, but 25x20 = 500 and I think he might be able to do that. He's showing 25 HR power this season and will likely only get stronger the next few years.

[weams]

And is that all the HoF is about? Simply "how good of a player he is".

If so, they should rename it the Hall of Statistical Excellence.

My argument with Roy was that his friend, Bobby Grich, was as statistically excellent as Derek Jeter. The HoF never was part of it at that point.

[weams]

I'll say this. Bobby Grich was a hell of a player, and most of his greatness came after he played in Baltimore. He probably won't make it to the HOF and Jeter will, most likely on the first ballot. Is that a travesty? I don't think so.

No one hates the Yankees more than I do, and no one enjoys getting Jeter out more than I do, some here equal my passion against the Yankees, but no one eclipses it, believe me. That said, Jeter is one of the great players of his generation and deserves to be a HOF hands down. Will that about do it in this conversation?

But you admit, Grich was equally statistically excellent. All the rest is in the "intangibles?"

[Can_of_corn]

If Alex Rodriguez gets back on the field, he's only 61 hits away from 3000 and he's well past 600 HR. Pujols is 34 and has the 500 HR already, to go with 2454 hits. Miguel Cabrera is only 31 and has 2106 hits and 379 HR. He's a pretty good bet to reach both milestones unless he has a career-ending injury. I won't be surprised to see all three of these guys make it.

Remembering that you don't have to have amazing per-year totals if your career starts early enough, I'd say that any of Trout, Harper and Machado could have a shot. Harper is having kind of a lost season, but he's still got a big head start on most major leaguers. Manny will probably never be a huge HR guy, but 25x20 = 500 and I think he might be able to do that. He's showing 25 HR power this season and will likely only get stronger the next few years.

i can see Harper getting 500 HR but I don't think 3000 hits is going to happen. He's a 270 BA guy that is going to walk a ton.

[Frobby]

I'll say this. Bobby Grich was a hell of a player, and most of his greatness came after he played in Baltimore.

If WAR is your thing (and I know it's not really your thing, Roy), then Grich accumulated slightly more WAR in his 7 years in Baltimore than he did in his 10 years with the Angels.

[Frobby]

i can see Harper getting 500 HR but I don't think 3000 hits is going to happen. He's a 270 BA guy that is going to walk a ton.

I think you are probably right. Of course, Cal got 3000 hits with a .276 lifetime BA, but he was playing 162 games a year. Harper seems destined to get hurt a lot.

[Tx Oriole]

It is ridiculous that there haven't been any unanimous Hall of Famers by now, but if Jeter is the first, I'll puke.

Why? Because he plays for the Yankees is the reason? Oh my

I don't hate them that much. I think Jeter is one of the

better human beings on the Yankees. IMO

[Satyr3206]

But you admit, Grich was equally statistically excellent. All the rest is in the "intangibles?"

If intangibles are the same thing as having a $200 million dollar payroll every year. The playing field isn't level. And I believe in intangibles.

[weams]

Why? Because he plays for the Yankees is the reason? Oh my

I don't hate them that much. I think Jeter is one of the

better human beings on the Yankees. IMO

Because even if you multiply his intangibles by 10x. He is still a bottom two tier of five tiers HoF candidate. Incontrovertibly. He deserves to get there. Someday.

[Satyr3206]

Because even if you multiply his intangibles by 10x. He is still a bottom two tier of five tiers HoF candidate. Incontrovertibly. He deserves to get there. Someday.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately he'll make it on the first ballot.

[Frobby]

Why? Because he plays for the Yankees is the reason? Oh my

I don't hate them that much. I think Jeter is one of the

better human beings on the Yankees. IMO

Because there have been many players more deserving of being elected unanimously, AND because it definitely wouldn't be unanimous if he hadn't had all the advantages of playing for the Yankees.

[OFFNY]

It is ridiculous that there haven't been any unanimous Hall of Famers by now, but if Jeter is the first, I'll puke.

Why?

Because he plays for the Yankees is the reason? Oh my, I don't hate them that much. I think that Jeter is one of the

better human beings on the Yankees. IMO.

I am going to take the very rare liberty of speaking for Frank (Frobby.)

Perhaps it is if because since players such as Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Joe DiMaggio, and Ted Williams WERE NOT unanimously voted it, then it will turn his stomach if the voters all decided to bestow that honor (the very first player EVER to be voted into the Hall-of-Fame unanimously) on Derek Jeter.

And if that's the case, then I completely agree with Frank/Frobby.

And Frank, my apologies in advance if I spoke out of turn on your behalf.

[ledzepp8]

And is that all the HoF is about? Simply "how good of a player he is".

If so, they should rename it the Hall of Statistical Excellence.

I mean this is cute and all but it's a name. We all know the point of the HOF is to enshrine the best, most important players of all time. Bo Jackson is probably one of the most famous athletes of all time, should he be in the Hall of Fame, simply because "fame" is in the title?

[weams]

I mean this is cute and all but it's a name. We all know the point of the HOF is to enshrine the best, most important players of all time. Bo Jackson is probably one of the most famous athletes of all time, should he be in the Hall of Fame, simply because "fame" is in the title?

Pete Rose. Is. Famous.