What does Nick's departure say to the other players who we may want to retain?

[mdbdotcom]

The numbers are on the very high end of reasonable. Even if you totally ignore 2013 you have to come to the conclusion Nick starts this deal as a 2-ish win player, and he's in his 30s. Reasonable assumes a 2-win starting point, declining half a win a year, which ends up with 5 wins over four years, or 4/30. And putting the GM in the rather uncomfortable position of explaining why he just paid average free agent rates for five wins over four years when you could go year-to-year with guys like David Lough for a small fraction of the cost and what's likely a very significant percentage of the value. If you remember 2013 happened, and that Nick is coming off neck surgery...

And all of this is apropos of Chris Davis, whose 1.8 rWAR last year was the highest he's put up, other than his 6+ rWAR of 2013. Unless Chris has a very good season, he may get a lesser contract than Adam Lind or Steve Pearce next year (presuming they are productive in 2015).

[DrungoHazewood]

And all of this is apropos of Chris Davis, whose 1.8 rWAR last year was the highest he's put up, other than his 6+ rWAR of 2013. Unless Chris has a very good season, he may get a lesser contract than Adam Lind or Steve Pearce next year (presuming they are productive in 2015).

Davis might be able to get someone to bite on a larger deal than logic dictates on the hope/prayer/delusion that he's got another 5+ win season in him, if only he's coddled/nurtured/PED exempted/etc. enough. But both his and Pearce's next deals with depend hugely on their performances this year.

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree with your whole line of thinking here. Buck has often been quoted recently that Baltimore is now a place where players want to come. That's a result of winning and the culture he has built in the clubhouse. It doesn't take much to undermine that. I agree that Duquette made the proper baseball decision regarding Nick. But he has been a bit of a bull in a china closet when it comes to handling the fall out from letting one his most popular players go. You don't make comments, even if they're true, like "DeAza can replace markakis' production."Nick came up through the organization and played nine years for your team. Also, you don't make a comment like, " he just misses his buddy", when referring to Jones' concern about the direction of the team. These men played together for most of they're careers. Show some respect they're not kids. Some will pooh pooh this argument and say it's irrelevant. But it clearly has had an effect on Davis' and certainly Jones' perspectives. Others may feel the same way but haven't said anything yet.

Maybe Duquette could have dealt with the media a little more carefully, but after time passes few players will look at the O's and say "Sure they win, but if you stop producing, become a free agent, and want a larger contract than is logically justified, they won't bend over backwards for you. I'm signing somewhere else."

[weams]

Maybe Duquette could have dealt with the media a little more carefully, but after time passes few players will look at the O's and say "Sure they win, but if you stop producing, become a free agent, and want a larger contract than is logically justified, they won't bend over backwards for you. I'm signing somewhere else."

They all say they want to win. Right?

[Redskins Rick]

]Maybe Duquette could have dealt with the media a little more carefully[/b]' date=' but after time passes few players will look at the O's and say "Sure they win, but if you stop producing, become a free agent, and want a larger contract than is logically justified, they won't bend over backwards for you. I'm signing somewhere else."[/quote']

I thought the knock on Duquette was, how little he dealt with the media and kept things private?

[Frobby]

Maybe Duquette could have dealt with the media a little more carefully, but after time passes few players will look at the O's and say "Sure they win, but if you stop producing, become a free agent, and want a larger contract than is logically justified, they won't bend over backwards for you. I'm signing somewhere else."

My worry is that the Orioles had a nice confluence of players who hit their prime at about the same time, and who were underpriced, but now that they are entering free agent eligibility, the O's simply can't afford to keep the majority of them unless they're willing to give at least a modest home team discount. And there are players who might be inclined to do that to keep the gang together, but when they perceive the organization as not showing a lot of loyalty to other players who were part of the core, they reciprocate by saying "fine then, I see how it is, I'll go where the money is best."

You can look at it a couple of different ways. On the one hand, if the O's can't afford to keep everyone, then Nick was a logical person to put limits on. He's a couple years older than some of the others, and has declined some. On the other hand, I continue to think that Nick meant more to his teammates than many people around here appreciate. He was the longest-tenured Oriole, he played hard and he played hurt, and he persevered through the hard years. I think when the O's let him go, some of the other players sort of said to themselves, "if they'll be cold-hearted with Nick, they'll do it with anyone, so I need to think just as coldly."

Horefully it will all work out. The Rays and A's have had a long run of success while not retaining a lot of major contributors once they hit free agency, and one can argue that it has to be that way. But there's no question that the future is very uncertain after 2015.

[weams]

Signing or not signing Nick makes and made no difference with Chris Davis. It's just rhetoric. He wouldn't have signed with us whether we signed Markakis or not. The writing's been on the wall since last offseason. Same thing with Wieters. Does anyone really believe these guys would have signed for less if Markakis had signed with us? It has nothing to do with them despite what they might say.

I forgive them.

[Frobby]

I forgive them.

Me too. I just want the 2015 team to fulfill its potential and not get distracted by what could happen after that.

[weams]

Me too. I just want the 2015 team to fulfill its potential and not get distracted by what could happen after that.

I'm excited by what might happen after that.

[Frobby]

Matt Wieters weighs in:

"I think the biggest concern is in this clubhouse we feel like we've put together a team that can compete for a lot of years," Wieters said. "The front office and Buck (Showalter) and all those guys have accumulated a team that we really like. And we really like this clubhouse. That's why you see so many guys that want to stay and want to come back, because of the kind of camaraderie that we have in this clubhouse.

"It's a unique experience and everybody knows that, and that's why you see everybody want to stay and want to keep building on it and be able to keep it around for a long time. In Major League Baseball, you don't see the closeness that this clubhouse has a lot."

The loss of Nick Markakis, who signed a four-year, $44 million deal with the Braves, was like a hard slap of reality across the faces of the pending free agents. If he was allowed to leave, anyone could follow him out the door.

"That's the thing. You never know," Wieters said. "Nick wanted to be an Oriole for life more than anybody and that's why this game is always going to have that business side to it. Especially the more revenue that it makes, it's going to become more and more of a business. The Little League kid in you thinks that part kind of stinks, but at the same time it's still baseball and it's a great game no matter where you're playing. And especially in Baltimore, it's been a great experience."

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2015/03/wieters-i-have-no-idea-what-the-future-will-hold.html

[jtschrei]

Signing or not signing Nick makes and made no difference with Chris Davis. It's just rhetoric. He wouldn't have signed with us whether we signed Markakis or not. The writing's been on the wall since last offseason. Same thing with Wieters. Does anyone really believe these guys would have signed for less if Markakis had signed with us? It has nothing to do with them despite what they might say.

Exactly. There's no one to feel bad for. It's all business. Nick was paid handsomely as an Oriole and he should have no complaints. His not signing only allows us to offer more money for Davis or Wieters. I do not believe that Wieters or Davis are goners at all. I think they will take the most money where ever that is offered and it has nothing to do with Nick Markakis.

I think DD and Buck have managed this team expertly. I have all the faith in the world in them. Every team has down years and we haven't had one in the 3 years they have been together. Could 2016 be a down year, maybe? But I wouldn't bet on it. I like DD and Buck. I like our guys! And I trust them to make the best decisions possible with the team.

[soxhotcorner14]

I don't think it means anything towards players the O's are looking to sign. All players know this is a business. On the other side of the coin they can look at Adam Jones and how both parties took a little bit of a risk to lock him up long term. It's really a case by case basis, then it's the culture of the team. Are they winning? Do I like the coaches, players, clubhouse mgr etc....

[Bahama O's Fan]

I really believe part of not offering big money to Markakis, Cruz and Miller this offseason was Dan seeing who the FA were next season. He probably can only spend on resigning one set of them. I think he would rather have some of Wieters, Davis, Chen, etc... back than the others due to age and positions they play.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Matt Wieters weighs in:

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2015/03/wieters-i-have-no-idea-what-the-future-will-hold.html

At least Wieters isn't whining and sounding like an idiot.

[mdbdotcom]

I really believe part of not offering big money to Markakis' date=' Cruz and Miller this offseason was Dan seeing who the FA were next season. He probably can only spend on resigning one set of them. I think he would rather have some of Wieters, Davis, Chen, etc... back than the others due to age and positions they play.[/quote']

I think he really wanted Cruz back, and had a good shot at him until the Mariners added one year too many.