Os are tenth in 2007 MLB payroll

[Sports Guy]

Cruz is not the cheaper answer to Payton. Cruz is a RH platoon player /4th OF and would require a LH hitting counter part who would cost considerably more. Payton while not ideal as a stsrting full time LF will give you better production against both LHP's and RHP's. Cruz is a better answer to our OF problems than Knott though.

Do you know who Cruz is?

He is a SWITCH HITTER who kills lefties and kills them at a better clip than Payton does.

He is also better defensively than Payton.

Payton probably does hit righties better but he still doesn't hit them good enough where he should play versus them.

[Sports Guy]

My fault. Either way - if the O's signed Huff for 3B, they would have had to get someone else to play 1B this year and after, and while I know you've been saying for a while they should have acquired a young 1B in a trade, we can't really know until after next year if that trade-off would've been worthwhile (after having a chance to know if the stats of potential players we might have acquired are better than Mora's.

So what...You can get someone to play first...They signed Millar..He could have played there. As you said, they could have gone after a young first baseman.

Perhaps they make a deal for a Sexson or someone like that.

Maybe Gibbons plays first.

[hoosiers]

Gotta agree with SG here. Too many times people resort to the old "Other teams do it, so what?" excuse.

I don't buy it for one minute.

The object of the game is to be better than other teams, to be the best... and when they are settling on things "because other teams do it too" then you don't have to wonder why this team has 9 losing seasons.

You like the Pavano contract in NYY? The Bird contract in Cleveland? There are plenty of mistake contracts out there even by well-respected GMs. But you can't operate in a vacuum? Just about every GM makes contract mistakes - so, while I am not saying there shouldn't be a standard here, and I agree our FO has contract mistakes, but let's not set the bar above where most everyone else is operating.

NMS, for the record, I never said it was okay to have bad contracts because other teams have them also. I said you can't judge our FO in a vacuum - something you appear to prepared to do.

[Sports Guy]

You like the Pavano contract in NYY? The Bird contract in Cleveland? There are plenty of mistake contracts out there even by well-respected GMs. But you can't operate in a vacuum? Just about every GM makes contract mistakes - so, while I am not saying there shouldn't be a standard here, and I agree our FO has contract mistakes, but let's not set the bar above where most everyone else is operating.

NMS, for the record, I never said it was okay to have bad contracts because other teams have them also. I said you can't judge our FO in a vacuum - something you appear to prepared to do.

I don't care what other teams are doing...I care what the Baltimore Orioles are doing.

[Fan4Life]

So are we now getting closer to Sapper's post where he would have preferred we spend our $40 mil on a couple stars and gone with young potential elsewere?

[Sports Guy]

So are we now getting closer to Sapper's post where he would have preferred we spend out $40 mil on a couple stars and gone with young potential elsewere?

Drungo has always said that you should have a team of guys making 10 million or more and guys making 1 million or less.

I am not sure i 100% agree with that but the premise is pretty close to what i agree with.

There are some bargains out there for "middle money" but for the most part, those are contracts you regret.

[Mark J]

So what...You can get someone to play first...They signed Millar..He could have played there. As you said, they could have gone after a young first baseman.

Perhaps they make a deal for a Sexson or someone like that.

Maybe Gibbons plays first.

OK, but then that's not truly an apples to apples comparison because to get someone in a trade, we'd have to trade something of value from our minor league system. With the moves we made in resigning Mora for 3B & signing Huff for 1B, we didn't have to trade any talent.

You could also argue that Sexson's contract is overpaying to some degree (relative to his actual stats).

[Sports Guy]

OK, but then that's not truly an apples to apples comparison because to get someone in a trade, we'd have to trade something of value from our minor league system. With the moves we made in resigning Mora for 3B & signing Huff for 1B, we didn't have to trade any talent.

You could also argue that Sexson's contract is overpaying to some degree (relative to his actual stats).

That depends on the talent you would have had to trade. If you could have traded a few mid level prospects, you may be ok.

Maybe we could have signed Wes Helms or Derosa.

Or, as i said, you just put Millar and Gibbons at first and Huff at third.

[El Gordo]

He is just as good as Mora.

And you can demonstrate this how? Any defensive numbers you put up would be highly suspect because there are no definitive numbers for defense. IMO Mora's defensive lapses are due mostly to fatigue rather than lack of skill. Just watching Huff at 1B, I wouldn't want a full season of him at 3B.

[DrungoHazewood]

Drungo has always said that you should have a team of guys making 10 million or more and guys making 1 million or less.

I am not sure i 100% agree with that but the premise is pretty close to what i agree with.

There are some bargains out there for "middle money" but for the most part, those are contracts you regret.

In a perfect world that's the way to go. In reality you'll probably end up with half a dozen $5M players, too, but I think the most efficient way to run a payroll is very unbalanced. Build what you can through the farm, buy a few big stars, and fill in the rest with platoons and innovation. Stay far, far away from $7M league average DHs, and the like.

[DrungoHazewood]

And you can demonstrate this how? Any defensive numbers you put up would be highly suspect because there are no definitive numbers for defense. IMO Mora's defensive lapses are due mostly to fatigue rather than lack of skill. Just watching Huff at 1B, I wouldn't want a full season of him at 3B.

Ok, if the numbers don't matter then I'll just say it. Huff is a better defensive third baseman than Mora. My cousin Earl from Topeka says so.

Prove me wrong. No numbers allowed.

[Sports Guy]

And you can demonstrate this how? Any defensive numbers you put up would be highly suspect because there are no definitive numbers for defense. IMO Mora's defensive lapses are due mostly to fatigue rather than lack of skill. Just watching Huff at 1B, I wouldn't want a full season of him at 3B.

LOL...So, numbers mean nothing to you and you ask me to demonstrate it? Gee, what a waste of a post. Why ask me to demonstrate it if evidence doesn't matter to you? I would say that Mora is more athletic than Huff and i would guess better range. I am not sure his arm is any better and maybe he doesn't position himself as well as Huff(i don't really know, just saying)

And maybe fatigue is a big reason for Mora's poor defense...But guess what , he is supposed to be AN EVERYDAY PLAYER!!!!....So, that just further backs up my point that we could get similar production for less.

[Fan4Life]

In a perfect world that's the way to go. In reality you'll probably end up with half a dozen $5M players, too, but I think the most efficient way to run a payroll is very unbalanced. Build what you can through the farm, buy a few big stars, and fill in the rest with platoons and innovation. Stay far, far away from $7M league average DHs, and the like.

Who are some players signed in the last 2 years making $10-14 mil a year that you think are worth it and would have signed them?

[8ripken2131]

It's funny that this debate has gone on for 4+ pages, because I don't even think this payroll is correct. If you believe The Sun, then the O's payroll is around $86 million, not $95.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.ossider03apr03,0,926961.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball

[Fan4Life]

It's funny that this debate has gone on for 4+ pages, because I don't even think this payroll is correct. If you believe The Sun, then the O's payroll is around $86 million, not $95.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.ossider03apr03,0,926961.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball

Often payroll is quoted as expenditures only, not taking into account what portions of current players salaries other teams are paying... ours will be somewhat misleading because Benson is out so we are paying for another pitcher, Trachsel... but we are likely getting some insurance for that...