Do you consider Matt Wieters to be a bust?

[MurphDogg]

That problem with this argument is that it assumes I agree that there is at least an ounce of validity in your magic WAR statistic ...

That's fine, make a rational case that a starting pitcher with an ERA+ of 102 and a walk rate over 4 has provided more value in only 75 starts over 4 years than an above average catcher.

Or a 1st baseman who didn't become a full time starter until he was 28. I'm not disputing that Duda may be more valuable over the next 5 years than Wieters, but that is an argument in Wieters favor, because Duda will have reached free agency by then and there will be no further benefit to the team that drafted him.

[Camden_yardbird]

Can a player who reaches all star level production, no matter the draft position, ever be considered a bust? Given the failure rates of even first rounders I don't know if you can. Billy Rowell, Matt Hobgood, now there's a bust. In comparison Wieters is a legend.

[birdman333]

As others have said Wieters is not a bust but definitely a disappointment.

He was supposed to be a once in a decade type catcher with gold gloves adorning his trophy case and the rare combination of hitting for average with tons of power.

Very similar to Ben McDonald who at the time was one of the highest rated pitchers ever and turned out to be a mostly solid starter for several years but nowhere close to the once in a generation type destined for multiple Cy Youngs and leading the Orioles to greatness.

Neither McDonald or Wieters will go down as anywhere close to HOF caliber much less even an all time great Oriole so both were disappointments compared to their incredible ratings when entering the major leagues...

[Redskins Rick]

As others have said Wieters is not a bust but definitely a disappointment.

He was supposed to be a once in a decade type catcher with gold gloves adorning his trophy case and the rare combination of hitting for average with tons of power.

Very similar to Ben McDonald who at the time was one of the highest rated pitchers ever and turned out to be a mostly solid starter for several years but nowhere close to the once in a generation type destined for multiple Cy Youngs and leading the Orioles to greatness.

Neither McDonald or Wieters will go down as anywhere close to HOF caliber much less even an all time great Oriole so both were disappointments compared to their incredible ratings when entering the major leagues...

McDonald was over-used in college by his college manager, throwing complete games and closing out games the next day.

[weams]

As others have said Wieters is not a bust but definitely a disappointment.

He was supposed to be a once in a decade type catcher with gold gloves adorning his trophy case and the rare combination of hitting for average with tons of power.

Very similar to Ben McDonald who at the time was one of the highest rated pitchers ever and turned out to be a mostly solid starter for several years but nowhere close to the once in a generation type destined for multiple Cy Youngs and leading the Orioles to greatness.

Neither McDonald or Wieters will go down as anywhere close to HOF caliber much less even an all time great Oriole so both were disappointments compared to their incredible ratings when entering the major leagues...

Ben McDonald provided the Orioles with 14 WAR while under Orioles control. That is far better than Arrieta, Duda, or Dexter Fowler did during their control.

[weams]

That problem with this argument is that it assumes I agree that there is at least an ounce of validity in your magic WAR statistic ...

It's not my statistic. And everyone who has any current baseball knowledge at least acknowledges that sans the defensive component, it's pretty locked in.

[Redskins Rick]

Ben McDonald provided the Orioles with 14 WAR while under Orioles control. That is far better than Arrieta, Duda, or Dexter Fowler did during their control.

McDonald was never what was expected as the best pitcher to come out of College in several years.

As fans, we had always had high hopes that with him and he never saw the post season once.

He did go 78-70 with the team, so he was far from a bust.

[OFFNY]

o

Ben "Don't Call Me a Bust" McDonald

78 career wins, 24 complete games, 6 shutouts, a career E.R.A. of 3.91, and a career W.H.I.P. of 1.257 ...... all the while pitching his entire 9-year career in the American League (with the Designated Hitter), and the last few years having been pitched in the offensively-inflated steroid era.

While McDonald clearly didn't have the Cuellar-like or McNally-like career that we were hoping he would have, I always point out that he also had nowhere near a Rocky Cherry-like career either, and therefore do not lump him in with all of the other complete busts that have come and gone over the years.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcdonbe01.shtml

[thezeroes]

Hobgood is a bust.

Matusz is fairly typical.

Wieters is a victim of hype.

This is the best overall answer to this thread.

[ledzepp8]

Like WAR or don't like it. You're aren't providing any kind of stats or evidence to back up your argument.

[Moose Milligan]

A victim of hype? How can you not hype the minor league seasons he had? The hell were we supposed to do, sit on our thumbs and pretend to think he wouldn't turn out to be a great hitter?

[DrungoHazewood]

Like WAR or don't like it. You're aren't providing any kind of stats or evidence to back up your argument.

That's the thing. If you declare objective analysis to be bunk it's a short path to deciding whatever you say is correct. Who needs evidence when unsourced opinions can prove whatever you want?

[weams]

A victim of hype? How can you not hype the minor league seasons he had? The hell were we supposed to do, sit on our thumbs and pretend to think he wouldn't turn out to be a great hitter?

Like WAR or don't like it. You're aren't providing any kind of stats or evidence to back up your argument.

I think he had statistically the greatest minor league season of all time or something.

[Can_of_corn]

I think he had statistically the greatest minor league season of all time or something.

And then BP messed up the AA to MLB conversion.

[DrungoHazewood]

And then BP messed up the AA to MLB conversion.

I think they had some growing pains. Went from Clay Davenport and Joe Sheehan and some others making stuff up to a large staff and a rather huge subscription following, and they looked up one day and PECOTA was done on 45 interlocking Excel spreadsheets with spaghetti code scripts and 10000 people who'd paid $40 a head screaming that projections weren't done on time and QA was abysmal. I think that was right around Wieters debut time.