Imagine if DD had never made a waiver deadline trade?

[Frobby]

That's not even remotely true. I wouldn't care if they lost every game for the rest of eternity after that. I could finally watch a game in peace and not care about the outcome. It'd be completely liberating.

I'm old enough to have experienced '66, '70 and '83. I can tell you that my bitterest experience as a sports fan was watching the '69 Orioles lose to the Mets. The fact that we'd won the WS a scant three years before didn't dampen my bitterness one whit. Nor was I consoled when we lost to the Pirates in '71, the year after we'd beaten the Reds.

Now, I do agree that once your team has won a title, there is some sense that at least you've seen your team win it. But if you think you're not going to care about the outcome in the future once the O's have won a WS, I think you are very wrong. But maybe we're just wired differently. I'm a Duke grad and diehard fan, and I always care a lot about how they do despite the 5 men's basketball titles I've experienced. In a way, it makes anything less seem like a disappointment.

[Tony-OH]

Spoken like people born before 1983 who have no comprehension of the sense of urgency that the rest of us have to deal with while watching this team every day.

Right because no one born before then wants to have the Orioles in a World Series.

[canonfaz]

Everybody love everybody! Come on guys.

[Tony-OH]

But the Orioles are mediocre, Tony! You said so yourself!

I agree with your present view. I can't say whether we will hold off Boston and Toronto, but I think we are going to be in the playoff race into the final week of the season. And frankly, if this team were to win 90+ games and get beat out for the division title by a team that wins 95 or so, I certainly wouldn't consider that a disappointing season. I'm not that spoiled.

Well they're back to being mediocre since the All-Star break! lol

Seriously though, this team has proven it has enough offense to stay competitive. Davis has been out, Machado, Jones and Weiters have been slumping, but it's not going to stay this way. They'll rebound. I still don't know if they will have enough starting pitching to win the Division, but I do see them at least being a wild card team.

[canonfaz]

The season is a grind, funks are going to happen. This team has a great offense, it won't be held down too much longer.

[ChuckS]

I think the team will be fine as well, but his point still stands: DD has made a series of bad deadline trades and we're now dealing with the fallout.

I was adamantly against the Davies and EdRod trades at the time, because they were both obvious overpays. The Davies for Parra was especially egregious. Parra's numbers were inflated. We knew they were inflated. We made the trade anyways and, of course, he regresses. Davies would be our third best starter this year and who knows how many years beyond. Even as a 4/5 guy, we've all seen this year how useful it is to have a 4.5-5.00 ERA guy locking down the back end of the rotation for cheap. Instead we're paying guys tens of millions of dollars to pitch below replacement level. This is what happens when you gut your system for short term gains.

As for Arrieta, I don't hold that against DD and never have. Arrieta was no longer a prospect, we had given him numerous chances, and most people on the board were fed up with him. He was a classic change-of-scenery guy. Maybe a failure of player development, but not of DD directly. This trade doesn't bother me like the Davies and EdRod trades, because the process was solid, if the results were bad. That's not his fault.

Spot on.

I fear we are headed for the same type of deadline deal where we are dealing possible long term assets for short term upgrades. It's an endless cycle which hurts our payroll flexibility and our talent on the big league roster for the long term and even the near-term if guys like Sisco and Mancini are dealt.

[brianod]

I think the team will be fine as well, but his point still stands: DD has made a series of bad deadline trades and we're now dealing with the fallout.

I was adamantly against the Davies and EdRod trades at the time, because they were both obvious overpays. The Davies for Parra was especially egregious. Parra's numbers were inflated. We knew they were inflated. We made the trade anyways and, of course, he regresses. Davies would be our third best starter this year and who knows how many years beyond. Even as a 4/5 guy, we've all seen this year how useful it is to have a 4.5-5.00 ERA guy locking down the back end of the rotation for cheap. Instead we're paying guys tens of millions of dollars to pitch below replacement level. This is what happens when you gut your system for short term gains.

As for Arrieta, I don't hold that against DD and never have. Arrieta was no longer a prospect, we had given him numerous chances, and most people on the board were fed up with him. He was a classic change-of-scenery guy. Maybe a failure of player development, but not of DD directly. This trade doesn't bother me like the Davies and EdRod trades, because the process was solid, if the results were bad. That's not his fault.

I fail to see the logic in that because most people on this board was ok with letting Arrieta go, it was an ok move. Most people on this board aren't paid millions of dollars to be major league gms and the fact that most people on this board were wrong about Arrieta does not give DD a pass in my eyes. He's the boss, the buck stops there and he royally blew it.

[ChuckS]

I fail to see the logic in that because most people on this board was ok with letting Arrieta go, it was an ok move. Most people on this board aren't paid millions of dollars to be major league gms and the fact that most people on this board were wrong about Arrieta does not give DD a pass in my eyes. He's the boss, the buck stops there and he royally blew it.

Arrieta was a failed pitcher in Baltimore. He was a 27 year old, who was not pitching well enough to even be part of the big league rotation. He had limited trade value. I don't see how any of that is DD's fault? Arrieta got numerous chances to succeed here and couldn't do it.

If you want to blame DD because he failed to hire better coaches at the major league and minor league level to properly develop Arrieta, fine. But I think that's a little petty.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm a Duke grad and diehard fan, and I always care a lot about how they do despite the 5 men's basketball titles I've experienced. In a way, it makes anything less seem like a disappointment.

Many of my most bitter sports experiences involve Virginia Tech post-1999, post-National Championship loss. Every loss to some also-ran like Maryland ( ) is met with "WTF... we get to the title game, and now we're losing to Maryland?"

I'm sure I'll be happy if one of my teams win a title, but the randomness in it all makes it hard to take so seriously. The best team usually doesn't win, and the best team is the Yankees more often than not.

[OFFNY]

I'm just saying you have no concept or understanding of the internal struggle that we go through every time we watch a game and the other team takes a lead. You take everything for granted. We could be the next Cubs for all you know, and we have no memories to get us through a lifetime of that like people who remember 66/70/83 do. So relatively speaking, you don't care.

The Cubs have not won the World Series since 1908.

In order for the Orioles to "be the next Cubs", the Orioles would have to go until at least the year 2091 to equal that stretch of futility.

People have lived full lives and have died waiting for the Cubs to win the World Series.

That (Oriole fans living full lives and dying waiting for them to win the World Series) will not be occurring for at least another 40 or 45 years. The Cubs have not even made it to the World Series since 1945, at which point the Orioles' franchise was known as the St. Louis Browns, and would remain there for another 9 years (until 1954.)

Hence, your comparison between the 2 franchises and the plight of their respective fan bases is absurd.

So relatively speaking, you don't care.

For you to make a statement like that about the Oriole fans on these boards, you either have no idea what you are talking about, or you are trolling to push some agenda of yours. I suspect that the latter is the more likely scenario.

[Roll Tide]

We could have had a rotation of

Jake Arietta, Zach Davies, Josh Hader, Eduardo Rodriguez, Chris Tilman

plus a couple extra first round picks

I don't think there is anything that DD can do in the next couple weeks that

will get this team to the playoffs

Amazing overachievement (albeit with a favorable schedule) to get where they are,

but much like last year this team is not playoff bound

And so we wait to see who is given away for another futile playoff push this year.

Arrieta would have been DFA'd if he wasn't traded. He was terrible here! Stop bringing him up. It's a shame that he couldn't find himself here.

[Frobby]

Arrieta would have been DFA'd if he wasn't traded.

That's possibly an overstatement. Arrieta was in his last option year when he was traded. So, he would have had the rest of the year to get straightened out, and he would have had the following spring to show he deserved a spot on the 25-man roster. By then, Dave Wallace and Dom Chiti are on the coaching staff and maybe they are able to help Arrieta the way they helped Britton. I'm not saying it would have worked, just saying it's not a sure thing that Arrieta would have been DFA had he stayed in the organization. That said, I had no problem with that trade, and put much more blame on the organization for being unable to bring out Arrieta's potential than I do for trading him.

[osfan83]

I'm a Cleveland Browns Fan....enough said!

[flyhighbirds]

That's possibly an overstatement. Arrieta was in his last option year when he was traded. So, he would have had the rest of the year to get straightened out, and he would have had the following spring to show he deserved a spot on the 25-man roster. By then, Dave Wallace and Dom Chiti are on the coaching staff and maybe they are able to help Arrieta the way they helped Britton. I'm not saying it would have worked, just saying it's not a sure thing that Arrieta would have been DFA had he stayed in the organization. That said, I had no problem with that trade, and put much more blame on the organization for being unable to bring out Arrieta's potential than I do for trading him.

But Duquette is in charge of the organization. It is his job to know if the coaches training Arrieta were competent or incompetent.

Knowing how much raw talent Arrieta had, it is clear in my mind that Duquette blew it. As far as his success here, Duquette gets way to much credit for being at the right place at the right time.

at the

[DrungoHazewood]

It was not fun that VT lost that National Championship game, but I certainly managed to survive without the nightmares, cold sweats, and overriding sense of doom that apparently dominates poor Mr. Janikowski's every waking moment.

Maybe I'm not a real fan but I have a lot more great memories that will stick with me forever about the '89 and '12 Orioles and the '99 Tech football team than I do about the '83 World Series or any of the Redskins titles. No team I've rooted for has won a national-level championship since the '91 Redskins, and I sleep quite well.