Luis Hernandez Appreciation Thread

[CrimsonTribe]

That's just not true. You can claim that if you want, but it's a BS thing to say. More than a few people have here expressed "hate" for LH or have otherwise slammed him in ways that have little to do with who he is or how he played. He became a whipping boy, and lotsa people jumped on the bandwagon. People were doing this before the season even started, after he played SS wonderfully last year. I think the main reason is that they had OPS Religion, and if you have that religion, then a good-glove no-hit SS is the anti-Christ and anybody who supports him is a heretic.

Meanwhile, LH and Bynum have about the same AB's, and not only is LH the better-D SS, he also out-hit Bynum. Now, I certainly do not wish to encourage Bynum-hate, simply because I don't believe in hating on guys who are Orioles. This is because I'm an Oriole fan. However, by any rational measure, the completely different standards applied to LH and Bynum around here are the epitome of being hypocrital. The main reason people like Bynum and hate LH is because the look up numbers on the internet and think Bynum will have a better OPS. Which in actual reality he doesn't.

(Not dissing Bynum, just the folks who gang-tackled LH and somehow like Bynum at SS.)

"OPS Religion?" I know you're prone to exaggeration and making stuff up, but come on.

Anyway, comparing Luis Hernandez and Freddie Bynum is like comparing a half-chewed stick of gum to a dirty towel (MLB talent-wise, not as people ). Just b/c we don't want one doesn't mean we want the other.

[RShack]

"OPS Religion?" I know you're prone to exaggeration and making stuff up, but come on.

I'm not making anything up. If you go back and look at all the off-season angst about SS, I bet you'll see about 80% of the posts insisting that what we mainly needed at SS was league-average OPS and, oh-by-the-way, if we got good-D that was a bonus. The basic premise was that OPS is the overriding factor, and that D is a relatively-minor detail in comparison to OPS. If you don't believe me, you can go back and look it up.

[Baroquen131]

I'm not making anything up. If you go back and look at all the off-season angst about SS, I bet you'll see about 80% of the posts insisting that what we mainly needed at SS was league-average OPS and, oh-by-the-way, if we got good-D that was a bonus. The basic premise was that OPS is the overriding factor, and that D is a relatively-minor detail in comparison to OPS. You can look it up.

Heck, I'll admit to it now, and I stand by it. More hit, league average "D". Now if you excuse me, I need to go start a congregational singing of hymn 105 "For the Beauty of the WARP".

[Tx Oriole]

I agree with you. It is just too bad that some enjoy kicking somoene when they are down. I know LH was not a good ball player. We all know it. But dammit he was an O's player and he tried his best that he could. I do wish him all the best.

[RShack]

Now if you excuse me, I need to go start a congregational singing of hymn 105 "For the Beauty of the WARP".

Just so it's not about Win Shares. Anything but that...

[DrungoHazewood]

That's just not true. You can claim that if you want, but it's a BS thing to say. More than a few people have here expressed "hate" for LH or have otherwise slammed him in ways that have little to do with who he is or how he played. He became a whipping boy, and lotsa people jumped on the bandwagon. People were doing this before the season even started, after he played SS wonderfully last year. I think the main reason is that they had OPS Religion, and if you have that religion, then a good-glove no-hit SS is the anti-Christ and anybody who supports him is a heretic.

Meanwhile, LH and Bynum have about the same AB's, and not only is LH the better-D SS, he also out-hit Bynum. Now, I certainly do not wish to encourage Bynum-hate, simply because I don't believe in hating on guys who are Orioles. This is because I'm an Oriole fan. However, by any rational measure, the completely different standards applied to LH and Bynum around here are the epitome of being hypocrital. The main reason people like Bynum and hate LH is because the look up numbers on the internet and think Bynum will have a better OPS. Which in actual reality he doesn't.

(Not dissing Bynum, just the folks who gang-tackled LH and somehow like Bynum at SS.)

I know that my criticism was of the Baltimore Orioles and their decision to rely on a sub-par minor leaguer to fill a major league job. I know that I have no opinion of Luis Hernandez as a person, since I know next to nothing about him. My opinions of him rest solely on his performance as a baseball player, and my opinion of whether or not he should continue to be an Oriole is solely based on his abilities as a player.

I think this describes 99.9% of the opinions of the posters on the Hangout. I don't care about, nor care for, the opinions of the other 0.1% who don't like him as a person, or want him to fail for some reason or another.

If you believe that a gang of people is here wishing ill will on Luis Hernandez for reasons other than his overall ability as a baseball player, I think you're wrong. And your insistence that there's a large contingent of people who can't analyze performance beyond looking at OPS, well... I think that's seriously misguided as well.

[YardBirds13]

I know that my criticism was of the Baltimore Orioles and their decision to rely on a sub-par minor leaguer to fill a major league job. I know that I have no opinion of Luis Hernandez as a person, since I know next to nothing about him. My opinions of him rest solely on his performance as a baseball player, and my opinion of whether or not he should continue to be an Oriole is solely based on his abilities as a player.

I think this describes 99.9% of the opinions of the posters on the Hangout. I don't care about, nor care for, the opinions of the other 0.1% who don't like him as a person, or want him to fail for some reason or another.

If you believe that a gang of people is here wishing ill will on Luis Hernandez for reasons other than his overall ability as a baseball player, I think you're wrong. And your insistence that there's a large contingent of people who can't analyze performance beyond looking at OPS, well... I think that's seriously misguided as well.

As almost always, Drungo is exactly right. Rshack needs to get off his high horse. Everyone here just wanted whats best for the Orioles, and that wasn't LH playing shortstop.

[RShack]

I think this describes 99.9% of the opinions of the posters on the Hangout. I don't care about, nor care for, the opinions of the other 0.1% who don't like him as a person, or want him to fail for some reason or another.

For being such a big stats-guy, you sure do make them up out of thin air to suit whatever suits you at the moment.

The OH treatment of LH has not been one of its finer moments. And that has zilch to do with what's good for the team.

[DrungoHazewood]

For being such a big stats-guy, you sure do make them up out of thin air to suit whatever suits you at the moment.

The OH treatment of LH has not been one of its finer moments. And that has zilch to do with what's good for the team.

Believe what you want. It's of little concern to me. Your crusades against the supposedly vast legions of idioic posters became tiresome long ago.

[YardBirds13]

For being such a big stats-guy, you sure do make them up out of thin air to suit whatever suits you at the moment.

The OH treatment of LH has not been one of its finer moments. And that has zilch to do with what's good for the team.

Dude. Seriously. This is ORIOLES HANGOUT. Not LUIS HERNANDEZ FAN CLUB.

WE want this team to win. Luis Hernandez doesnt help us do that. Im confused as to why you think everyone would just take him in with open arms.

[Mackus]

I'm not making anything up. If you go back and look at all the off-season angst about SS, I bet you'll see about 80% of the posts insisting that what we mainly needed at SS was league-average OPS and, oh-by-the-way, if we got good-D that was a bonus.

You're either making stuff up or have readng comprehension issues.

When people say they want a SS with "league average OPS" they are just using OPS as a quick and dirty way to say overall offense. Its the easiest, quickest, best stat for that. There are many other stats that are better, but they are harder to find, harder to calculate, and less intuitive.

People just were hoping to find a SS with league average or close to it offense and similar defense. But mainly people just wanted to find the SS who made the best overall contribution, offensively and defensively.

[Mackus]

The basic premise was that OPS is the overriding factor, and that D is a relatively-minor detail in comparison to OPS. If you don't believe me, you can go back and look it up.

Replace "OPS" with "offense" and you've got the general opinion of many on here. And I'd agree with that opinion. Offense is more important than defense at nearly every position. That's not to say a guy who is 50 runs above average on offense and 50 runs below average on defense is better than a guy who is 10 runs above on offense and average on defense. The whole sum of the parts is what ultimately matters.

But the range of values between the best offensive, average offensive, and worst offensive players at any position is far wider than the difference between the best defensive, average defensive, and worst defensive players at any position.

A bad defensive player might cost you 15-20 runs compared to average on a year. A bad offensive player probably costs you 25-30 or more. And the numbers are similar the other way for great offensive and great defensive players.

Its essentially the same concept as positional scarcity.

[itsernst]

I cannot believe this thread went past the first page...

[YardBirds13]

Replace "OPS" with "offense" and you've got the general opinion of many on here. And I'd agree with that opinion. Offense is more important than defense at nearly every position. That's not to say a guy who is 50 runs above average on offense and 50 runs below average on defense is better than a guy who is 10 runs above on offense and average on defense. The whole sum of the parts is what ultimately matters.

But the range of values between the best offensive, average offensive, and worst offensive players at any position is far wider than the difference between the best defensive, average defensive, and worst defensive players at any position.

A bad defensive player might cost you 15-20 runs compared to average on a year. A bad offensive player probably costs you 25-30 or more. And the numbers are similar the other way for great offensive and great defensive players.

Its essentially the same concept as positional scarcity.

Gah! Stop making so many valid arguments all at once!!!

[YardBirds13]

By the way, I CANNOT WAIT for the Steve Trachsel Appreciation thread. That is gonna be good ole' fashioned fun right there folks.