Ideas on how to fix the O's

[wildcard]

Just some thoughts:

Gausman - Has lost his support system.   Wallace left.  Wieters left.  These two guys helped him adjust and solve problems.   Apparently McDowell and/or Castillo  has not filled that void and that has shaken  his confidence.

Answer - Get Mike Griffin involved.   He is the only coach in the O's system that I am aware of that has helped Gausman adjust in the past.   Wallace brought Ramon Martinez in to help with Ubaldo.  And it worked for a while.   I think Griffin might help get Gausman on the right track.

Manny -  Got pull  happy.   Going for it with every swing.

Answer - Hit the ball up the middle to adjust his swing.   A time tested method.

Miley - Palmer says the WhiteSox  hitter coach says that Miley got too predictable with his pitches.  He was going low and outside too much.  This come back to pitch calling.  Its Miley's responsibility to call his own game but if that is not working and Castillo is not pick up on the patterns being predictable the pitching coach should be helping out.

Answer - Again I think this process  in not working and some outside help may be needed.  Whether that is Griffin or someone else Buck has to make the call.

Asher - He pitched well of 5 innings but Buck wanted 6 innings or 100 pitches.  Maybe that is a little too much to ask of a 5th starter with limited veto like Asher

Answer - I know its a lot to ask but Buck may need to adjust to the limitations on his pitchers.   A single and a HBP in the 6th, Buck may want to go to the pen.   Especially with Asher who in a first year guy with limited stuff.

Just a few thoughts.   What suggestion do you have?

 

 

 

[webbrick2010]

Fire sell, cut payroll as much as possible. Find a young (very young) sabermetric versed GM and Manager and clear out all the geriatrics that DD has thruout the system.

Will probably have to DFA Chris Davis by 2019 at the latest.

Lose 100+ games for 2-3 consecutive years, collecting #1 draft picks, and hit big on those picks. Back in the playoffs by 2020.

[Aristotelian]

Coaching changes usually aren't a magic bullet. Either you blow up the team or ride it out. Anything else is just a band aid.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Asher - He pitched well of 5 innings but Buck wanted 6 innings or 100 pitches.  Maybe that is a little too much to ask of a 5th starter with limited veto like Asher

Answer - I know its a lot to ask but Buck may need to adjust to the limitations on his pitchers.   A single and a HBP in the 6th, Buck may want to go to the pen.   Especially with Asher who in a first year guy with limited stuff.

Buck doesn't want to go the pen in that situation. We've seen Buck leave a pitcher in a batter or two too long dozens of times. Maybe he's trying to put less strain on the relievers. Maybe he's trying to build the starters' confidence. It rarely has turned out well.

Our starters, with the possible exception of Tillman when he was healthy, don't seem to have the physical (and/or emotional, maybe) strength to step it up once they've gotten in a jam because they're losing command or velocity after throwing 80 or 90 pitches. Leaving them in has cost the team lots of wins and chances to win.

[TouchemAll]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Coaching changes usually aren't a magic bullet. Either you blow up the team or ride it out. Anything else is just a band aid.

AND.... The Orioles LOVE band aids.

[LookitsPuck]

Nothing is going to fix the O's aside from a rebuild and that includes getting rid of Duquette.

[JR Oriole]

I would have no problem doing a full-fledged fire sale and losing 100+ for 2-3 years in order to completely re-stock the farm system.  In fact, I would love to be at the top of the farm ranking system instead of at the bottom...who doesn't love being the best at SOMETHING?!  My biggest concern is whether or not we have the right personnel in place throughout the minors to fully develop these top-notch prospects once we get them in our system.  The fact that we have struggled mightily for over two decades to develop consistent starting pitching, and the fact that our farm system continues to be awful every year, makes me wonder whether we have coaches who are actually good at their jobs in our system. 

[wildcard]

Peter Angelos in 86 years old.  I doubt that he wants to rebuild.  He probably wants to reload.

[Can_of_corn]

19 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Peter Angelos in 86 years old.  I doubt that he wants to rebuild.  He probably wants to reload.

His son might be the one making that decision.

 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

His son might be the one making that decision.

 

My experience with people that have built something like Peter built is that they don't let go until they die.   John may get to make some decisions but the decision to rebuild and be bad for several years is not one that Peter is likely to give up.

[maybenxtyr]

11 minutes ago, wildcard said:

My experience with people that have built something like Peter built is that they don't let go until they die.   John may get to make some decisions but the decision to rebuild and be bad for several years is not one that Peter is likely to give up.

That may be what happens. As fans there is really nothing we can do except stepping away from watching and such. As currently constructed though there is not a lot of hope for a rebound. They can't afford3 pitchers that can actually pitch in one off season. That's not even beginning the discussion on the holes at the corner OF and SS and catcher.

[SteveA]

So an interesting thread gets started about what specifically to do RIGHT NOW to get some of our struggling players to perform better.  This week.   Tonight.   How to get struggling pitchers to pitch better, how to get our best hitter out of a slump.   A very worthy topic.

And just about everyone that responds ignores the primary topic and turns it into a discussion of firing the GM, blowing up the team, doing a total rebuild, and whether the owner will allow it, etc.

Because of course there are NO OTHER threads like that on the board to discuss those issues.  It has to be discussed in this thread because no one has been discussing it ANYWHERE else on the board.   (That's sarcasm in case anybody didn't get it.   Someone could start a thread about the brand of grass on the field at Oriole Park, and I'm sure webbrick would find a way to get a fire-Duquette or get-rid-of-everybody-and-rebuild into the thread).

Good post, wildcard.   Jim Palmer is a smart man and he has been talking about how the second time through the order Miley and other pitchers throw the same sequence of pitches they did the first time through.   That is a big concern (and has to be somewhat an indictment of Castillo, McDowell, or both, though I don't think a mid-season coach firing is going to fix much so I'm not advocating that.   Especially given McDowell's track record).

It seems to me that Gausman is afraid to throw his fastball for strikes, maybe for good reason because it is straight.   We know he can be better than he has shown recently, even if he'll never be quite as good as his peaks last year.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight that Asher was extended too long.   But his pitch count wasn't THAT high.   And he had pitched very well prior to the 6th inning.   And it's not like we have great guys in the pen.   Let's face it, the guy we brought in after Asher let the first two baserunners get on base.   Not a home run, but to say that we would have held them to two runs if Bleier had come in a couple batters sooner is a big assumption.

Asher has now had two good starts, two HORRIBLE starts, and one start that was very good for 5 innings and then went down the toilet quickly.   I have no idea what to expect at this point but we don't have a lot of options.   A couple weeks ago it looked like Asher & Ubaldo might be a tag team in the #5 spot, with UJ there if Asher got knocked out early.   Then he went and had a good game against the Red Sox and Ubaldo got "moved" in the bullpen rotation.   If you assume Givens and Brach will probably not pitch until the 8th and the 9th, it's pick your poison.   Sticking with a guy on relatively low pitch count and hoping he can work his way out of a jam without too much damage (and maybe learn something in the process that will help him going forward) might be preferable to bringing in one of our non-premium relievers and hoping he can escape the jam.

[LookitsPuck]

Asher times through the order (as starter):

1st: .239/.340/.391- .731 OPS

2nd: .217/.245/.413- .658 OPS

3rd: .417/.481/.750 - 1.231 OPS

Buck's MO has always been to push his pitchers. And it blew up in his face.

Pitch count shouldn't dictate whether they're pulled or not. Track record (times through the order) and performance throughout the game should. Yes, he had only allowed 2 ER through 5 up until then...but let's also not forget the following details:

Asher was left in to face Jose Abreu. Who promptly hit a single on a 1-0 count.

He had Avisail Garcia behind in the count 1-2...and then he hit him.

He went 3-1 on Todd Frazier and then proceeded to walk him.

Asher was left in to face the meat of the order a 3rd time. That was the first strike to me. The second strike was leaving him after allowing the first 3 to reach (especially on a HBP and a walk). This might have been an opportunity to bring in somebody that could actually strike somebody out. And I don't know about you...but a 6.7 SO/9 as a starter who is struggling isn't the right guy for that job. And the 3rd for me is just Buck's tendency to believe in the win rule. 

[sportsfan8703]

12 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

I just spoke to a former Oriole. I won't identify him. This person said that Buck is not the blame. He is not the problem with the pitching or the hitting, but this person is still amazed at the lack of development by this franchise in the minor leagues...and THAT IS the problem.

I agree, but really who is there to develop?  We have to spend less in Latin America than any other team.  We've traded away lots of promising guys to supplement the MLB team.  Like Hader, Davies, Miranda, Cosme, Brault.  We've given away 3 comp picks to get rid of salary.  As a SP who is in the system to develop?

AAA- Nobody.  Mike Wright?  The guys that were so unwanted that we aquired them for cash/draft slots like Lee, Aquino, Ynoa, Verret, Nuno.  

AA-  We have a bunch of 24/25 year olds that weren't drafted very high.  Hard to squeeze the talent out of that.  Scott is a reliever.  Long has been used primarily as a reliever.

A- Sedlock and Akin are top picks that have struggled to make the two level jump to A+.  Harvey is hurt.  Peralta looks like a thrower that ran into better hitters.  

The farm system is so thin because of,

1.  Trading away an entire MLB rotation of Ed Rod, Triggs(DFA), Davies, Miranda, Hader.  

2.  Losing 1st rd picks to sign Ubaldo and Gallardo

3.  Not spending enough in Latin America

4.  Trading comp picks away in order to get rid of Webb and Matusz.  

Back to the OP, what we can do tonight is get a darn QS.  Manny can get his head out of FA land and put up more than a .670 OPS.  

[Can_of_corn]

30 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Asher times through the order (as starter):

1st: .239/.340/.391- .731 OPS

2nd: .217/.245/.413- .658 OPS

3rd: .417/.481/.750 - 1.231 OPS

 

There isn't room for TTTP and TTTOP both in Buck's worldview.

Seriously he doesn't seem to put much stock in TTTOP.