TT: Is Bridwell's success with the Angels a strike against the Orioles?

[Tony-OH]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-bridwell-20170720-story.html

"His status within the organization continued to decline, and in April, Baltimore sold him to the depth-deprived Angels for cash. After a month of building up stamina as a starter, he was in the majors. The Angels showed him a series of cut-up videos indicating the location of his pitches that the opposition had been hitting, and presented evidence that he would be better off throwing fewer fastballs.

That was a shock. For years, the Orioles had harped on the importance of establishing and locating four-seam fastballs. This season, he has halved his four-seam usage in favor of a cutter, slider and sinker, and six of his seven outings as an Angel have been successful."

While the Orioles continue to run Ubaldo and Miley to mound every five days, Parker Bridwell was discarded for nothing. Like trading Davies and Miranda, the Orioles assessed that what they had was better than what these guys could give them at the major league level. The real question is, who are making these evaluations?

It also is a concern that another organization took a player struggling on the Orioles system, showed him what he was doing wrong, and helped make him a pretty successful big league starter. 

As I watch many of the Orioles minor league games, it's not unusual to see the starters throwing 75% or more fastballs. While the league is making adjustments to becoming less fastball heavy, it seems the Orioles have yet to make the same adjustments at the big league and minor league levels. 

Sure, teaching fastball command is important, but also making pitchers find what works for them whether it be with a cutter, changeup, slider or curveball are equally important. 

With three former farm hands drafted or signed in the last six year now pitching successfully in the big leagues as starters, is it fair to say that development take some of the blame? Or, were the players developing fine but the evaluations of their major league abilities off? 

Considering that a lot of the players they've signed(minus Nelson Cruz, Brad Brach and Mark Trumbo), traded for, or acquired have been either been misses or out right busts, I tend to think the evaluators are the ones missing here.

Either way, I found this article interesting and worth some conversation.

[LA2]

Oriole development and evaluation of starting pitchers stinks. This could not have escaped the notice of Duquette and Showalter. Why have they not demanded or instituted the changes that would solve such a huge problem? Or are they part of the problem?

[weams]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-bridwell-20170720-story.html

"His status within the organization continued to decline, and in April, Baltimore sold him to the depth-deprived Angels for cash. After a month of building up stamina as a starter, he was in the majors. The Angels showed him a series of cut-up videos indicating the location of his pitches that the opposition had been hitting, and presented evidence that he would be better off throwing fewer fastballs.

That was a shock. For years, the Orioles had harped on the importance of establishing and locating four-seam fastballs. This season, he has halved his four-seam usage in favor of a cutter, slider and sinker, and six of his seven outings as an Angel have been successful."

While the Orioles continue to run Ubaldo and Miley to mound every five days, Parker Bridwell was discarded for nothing. Like trading Davies and Miranda, the Orioles assessed that what they had was better than what these guys could give them at the major league level. The real question is, who are making these evaluations?

It also is a concern that another organization took a player struggling on the Orioles system, showed him what he was doing wrong, and helped make him a pretty successful big league starter. 

As I watch many of the Orioles minor league games, it's not unusual to see the starters throwing 75% or more fastballs. While the league is making adjustments to becoming less fastball heavy, it seems the Orioles have yet to make the same adjustments at the big league and minor league levels. 

Sure, teaching fastball command is important, but also making pitchers find what works for them whether it be with a cutter, changeup, slider or curveball are equally important. 

With three former farm hands drafted or signed in the last six year now pitching successfully in the big leagues as starters, is it fair to say that development take some of the blame? Or, were the players developing fine but the evaluations of their major league abilities off? 

Considering that a lot of the players they've signed(minus Nelson Cruz, Brad Brach and Mark Trumbo), traded for, or acquired have been either been misses or out right busts, I tend to think the evaluators are the ones missing here.

Either way, I found this article interesting and worth some conversation.

You would have to think so. He's done well. 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, LA2 said:

Oriole development and evaluation of starting pitchers stinks. This could not have escaped the notice of Duquette and Showalter. Why have they not demanded or instituted the changes that would solve such a huge problem? Or are they part of the problem?

There in lies the real question. I know for a fact that the development team implements things that come from Duquette. They do not have full autonomy to develop how they would like. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Oriole development and evaluation of starting pitchers stinks. This could not have escaped the notice of Duquette and Showalter. Why have they not demanded or instituted the changes that would solve such a huge problem? Or are they part of the problem?

You know what helps throw out base stealers?  Fastballs.

[interloper]

This is why when Kevin Gausman throws an 0-2 heater down the middle, it should come as no surprise. 

[25 Nuggets]

The Ghost of Jake Arrieta says "hi".

[AnythingO's]

Is it development and or evaluation, or is it being inflexible in what you require or maybe demand from a prospect? Weams used to say that every org that called about O's prospects asked about Bridwell. Then he gets moved presumably because he failed to continue developing along the required path. I'm suggesting that path is largely dictated by Buck who is responsible for selecting pitching coaches and hence dictating what a starter needs to be able to do at the ML level to be successful. If they don't fit the yardstick Buck is using they go away. That obsession with 4 seam fastball away was attributed to Mizzone and TTTP was attributed to Buck. That combination has derailed more than one O's pitching prospect. DD brought in Petersen to do bio-mechanics but he clearly didn't gain traction and left. We are drafting better, position players are coming thru the system, we can build a dominant bullpen. That tells me DD and Co. can evaluate and develop. I love Buck as a manager but I believe his influence on pitching coaches is ruining our SP prospects development.

[ISU94]

Bridwell has a 5.38 FIP...I really don't think what he is doing is sustainable. For those that want to just look at ERA it's tough and all to see a young SP that the Orioles moved doing well so far but he probably isn't a long term answer in the MLB for anyone.

[LookitsPuck]

This isn't a shocker. The Orioles are overly fascinated with 4 seam fastballs and velocity at a time where organizations are thinking outside the box a la the Astros.

[LookitsPuck]

39 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

Bridwell has a 5.38 FIP...I really don't think what he is doing is sustainable. For those that want to just look at ERA it's tough and all to see a young SP that the Orioles moved doing well so far but he probably isn't a long term answer in the MLB for anyone.

The question isn't whether his 3.18 ERA is sustainable. But rather is his viability as a rotation member long term sustainable? To that...he might be. Pitchers outpitch their FIP all the time.

Miguel Gonzalez had a career 4.70 FIP with the Orioles. He ended up with a 3.82 ERA and a 107 ERA+ for the Orioles during that 4 year stretch.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, LookitsPuck said:

This isn't a shocker. The Orioles are overly fascinated with 4 seam fastballs and velocity at a time where organizations are thinking outside the box a la the Astros.

The Yankees despite having the highest average velocity on their fastballs have decreased their fastball usage this year.

I was hoping that this 3 inning thing was going to turn into something interesting, but it's not.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LookitsPuck said:

The question isn't whether his 3.18 ERA is sustainable. But rather is his viability as a rotation member long term sustainable? To that...he might be. Pitchers outpitch their FIP all the time.

Miguel Gonzalez had a career 4.70 FIP with the Orioles. He ended up with a 3.82 ERA and a 107 ERA+ for the Orioles during that 4 year stretch.

O's cared about fielding a strong defensive club back then.

[LookitsPuck]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

O's cared about fielding a strong defensive club back then.

Sure. But at the same time, you build your rotation in creative ways if you don't want to break the bank on a starter. It's ultimately why it's a continued head scratcher that the organization pumps money/time into 1 dimensional players and creates a log job of DHs in the outfield....all the while pushing philosophies/acquiring players that are prone to being flyball pitchers. It doesn't jive.

[ISU94]

2 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

The question isn't whether his 3.18 ERA is sustainable. But rather is his viability as a rotation member long term sustainable? To that...he might be. Pitchers outpitch their FIP all the time.

Miguel Gonzalez had a career 4.70 FIP with the Orioles. He ended up with a 3.82 ERA and a 107 ERA+ for the Orioles during that 4 year stretch.

I know FIP isn't the end all be all, and I'm sure he'd outpitch it. But imo, here, he would likely have been a mid 4 ERA guy consistently at best. Better than a couple guys we have, sure, but not a guy we look back at kicking ourselves over. He is definitely not a guy like that.