TT: Is Bridwell's success with the Angels a strike against the Orioles?

[LookitsPuck]

There are other rounds than the 1st.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

There are other rounds than the 1st.

You are right. There are also kids in Latin America. Kids like Severino. A ton of kids that helped Boston get Sale and Pomeranz and Kimbrel. Fauria in Tampa has impressed. Montgomery in NY this year. That said they aren't exactly common. 

[Dr. Unk]

Common theme here....

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Tony-OH said:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-bridwell-20170720-story.html

"His status within the organization continued to decline, and in April, Baltimore sold him to the depth-deprived Angels for cash. After a month of building up stamina as a starter, he was in the majors. The Angels showed him a series of cut-up videos indicating the location of his pitches that the opposition had been hitting, and presented evidence that he would be better off throwing fewer fastballs.

That was a shock. For years, the Orioles had harped on the importance of establishing and locating four-seam fastballs. This season, he has halved his four-seam usage in favor of a cutter, slider and sinker, and six of his seven outings as an Angel have been successful."

While the Orioles continue to run Ubaldo and Miley to mound every five days, Parker Bridwell was discarded for nothing. Like trading Davies and Miranda, the Orioles assessed that what they had was better than what these guys could give them at the major league level. The real question is, who are making these evaluations?

It also is a concern that another organization took a player struggling on the Orioles system, showed him what he was doing wrong, and helped make him a pretty successful big league starter. 

As I watch many of the Orioles minor league games, it's not unusual to see the starters throwing 75% or more fastballs. While the league is making adjustments to becoming less fastball heavy, it seems the Orioles have yet to make the same adjustments at the big league and minor league levels. 

Sure, teaching fastball command is important, but also making pitchers find what works for them whether it be with a cutter, changeup, slider or curveball are equally important. 

With three former farm hands drafted or signed in the last six year now pitching successfully in the big leagues as starters, is it fair to say that development take some of the blame? Or, were the players developing fine but the evaluations of their major league abilities off? 

Considering that a lot of the players they've signed(minus Nelson Cruz, Brad Brach and Mark Trumbo), traded for, or acquired have been either been misses or out right busts, I tend to think the evaluators are the ones missing here.

Either way, I found this article interesting and worth some conversation.

Great post. Bridwell was strong again today. His cutter is definitely a nice weapon for him. He'd be our best starter right now. Humiliating to lose picks for Baldos and just give arms like this away. 

The O's are behind the times. The flat fb is the easiest pitch to knock the crap out if. Gausman, while pitching poorly, still had a high swing & miss rate against offspeed stuff than anyone in baseball for a month. If pitches aren't moving late they're getting tagged. These days guys hit 99 like its nothing if it doesn't move. Guys throw 98 in low a and get hit. 

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Tony-OH said:

There in lies the real question. I know for a fact that the development team implements things that come from Duquette. They do not have full autonomy to develop how they would like. 

It would seem he's in over his head. There was an article on Brault reworking things too. Dans system doesn't work and adapting doesn't seem to be in his plans. 

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 3:11 PM, ISU94 said:

Bridwell has a 5.38 FIP...I really don't think what he is doing is sustainable. For those that want to just look at ERA it's tough and all to see a young SP that the Orioles moved doing well so far but he probably isn't a long term answer in the MLB for anyone.

Yeah but if you just watch him pitch he's got better stuff than anyone we have but Gausman. He just changed everything and has 2 wins over Boston and shit down NY in NY. He's not a finished product, he's cheap and he was ours. Humiliating loss.

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Can_of_corn said:

O's cared about fielding a strong defensive club back then.

Dan got us Trumbo to play a sweet RF. That was one of the more hilarious attempts at making a catch that I've ever seen. Trumbo, Smash.

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 3:55 PM, ISU94 said:

I know FIP isn't the end all be all, and I'm sure he'd outpitch it. But imo, here, he would likely have been a mid 4 ERA guy consistently at best. Better than a couple guys we have, sure, but not a guy we look back at kicking ourselves over. He is definitely not a guy like that.

He'd be the guy most likely to get us a win today. 

[ISU94]

Just now, Cumberbundy said:

He'd be the guy most likely to get us a win today. 

Okay?

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, LookitsPuck said:

A mid 4 ERA guy would be better than Gallardo, Miley and Ubaldo (all making double digits and had multi-years on their contrcts). He's also far younger and controllable. These are the kinds of guys every club should have as it helps control their payroll. Otherwise you're the Orioles. A near $170m payroll with multiple double digit players all performing well below their value.

Especially when we are giving away our international slots, we can't forfeit draft picks or cheap young talented arms. 

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 3:59 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

I think we grouped Davies in with Wilson and Wright and figured they were similar, so why not trade one for Parra. Wilson had a great stretch last year. Just looked work down. Wright looks like he could be good as a reliever. 

Miranda and Bridwell just struck me as two guys that Buck thought weren't nuggets. We viewed them as relievers and we all know the relief depth we have. 

Buck is great. I hope he's hear the next seven years, but I do think he's had a huge role in getting rid of Miranda, Triggs, Bridwell, and Drake. 

The one thing I will point out is that I don't know if any of those guys pitch as well as they've done in the AL East, in the small parks, 50% at OPACY. 

So it's a different evaluation standard. 

Triggs is the worst pitcher I've ever seen in my life. 

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 4:01 PM, ISU94 said:

I said the best case is he's a mid 4 ERA guy (aka a #5 starter). Yes, those guys are all making big bucks, but they also were expected to be better than that when we paid them double digit salaries. 

This isn't a guy we should be kicking ourselves over. Would I prefer he was here? Sure. But he is very likely a AAAA pitcher that is solid organizational depth that could make a few starts in an MLB rotation, with an outside shot at being a solid #5 starter from everything I have seen/read/watched on the guy. When I say best case that isn't often the case of what happens with a player btw.

Obviously I'd rather have him then nothing, just saying I don't think Bridwell is ever a guy we will look back on being like, "What if?" lol.

He's exactly who we should be kicking ourselves over imo. Young, cheap, big arm....he could develop into a #3 or a set up man, you can't give him away when your roster is as putrid as ours. 

[ISU94]

Just now, Cumberbundy said:

He's exactly who we should be kicking ourselves over imo. Young, cheap, big arm....he could develop into a #3 or a set up man, you can't give him away when your roster is as putrid as ours. 

Bridwell is not nor ever will be a #3 starter.

 

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 4:20 PM, LookitsPuck said:

I think the biggest issue isn't us having 20/20 in hindsight. It's that this organization continues to hemorrhage talent...whether it be by poor evaluations, development or just poor trades. When we continue  to lose Andrew Triggs, Ariel Mirandas, Parker Bridwells, Zach Davies  (as well as draft picks) because of poor trades or poor acquisitions....it gets magnified. We can't afford to keep screwing the pooch and be stuck with no farm system and little cost controllable starters.   

Brault, Hader, Ed Rod.

[Cumberbundy]

On July 21, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Frobby said:

I think we have a serious problem with developing and evaluating pitchers.    Where that problem originates and who is responsible and what can be done to fix it is beyond my competence.    All I can say is, that problem existed long before Dan and Buck arrived on the scene.    I don't think they caused it, but they've certainly failed to fix it.

There are just way too many stories of pitchers who leave here and immediately improve to think that's it's just random chance.   

Rep this man! High quality thread.