Are we a bad team masquerading as a mediocre one?

[Ohfan67]

There's no evidence that Brady's conditioning routine is anything special. The local press has enjoyed writing about it but most of the players who worked out with him didn't show significant improvement in the following season. Overall I am very leery of Brady's influence in the organization. It reeks of the Angelos insiders of the past who undermined the decisions and authority of the people who should be responsible, who were "supposed to be" responsible. 

[Going Underground]

47 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

There's no evidence that Brady's conditioning routine is anything special. The local press has enjoyed writing about it but most of the players who worked out with him didn't show significant improvement in the following season. Overall I am very leery of Brady's influence in the organization. It reeks of the Angelos insiders of the past who undermined the decisions and authority of the people who should be responsible, who were "supposed to be" responsible. 

Wallace and Chiti were not fans.Chiti supposedly left because of Brady and other reasons. Even some think he might have hurt Tillman somewhat.The pitching coach revolving door is not good for young pitchers.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Ohfan67 said:

There's no evidence that Brady's conditioning routine is anything special. The local press has enjoyed writing about it but most of the players who worked out with him didn't show significant improvement in the following season. Overall I am very leery of Brady's influence in the organization. It reeks of the Angelos insiders of the past who undermined the decisions and authority of the people who should be responsible, who were "supposed to be" responsible. 

Trey mentioned him by name twice when he was on MLB network last week.

[allquixotic]

It’s all about syncing up with good and bad days.

 

If the Orioles and the Red Sox both have an equal number of bad starts by the SP, and an equal number of bad games at the plate, and an equal number of bad defensive days, but the Red Sox play badly as a complete team (pitching, hitting and defense) on the same day, while the Orioles have only one epically bad element of the team composition per day, the Orioles are going to lose a lot more games than the Red Sox.

[Ohfan67]

21 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Trey mentioned him by name twice when he was on MLB network last week.

That is definitely not data or "evidence". The workouts had no noticeable effect on the performance of Kim, Wright, Garcia, Berry, etc. There's no evidence that Brady does anything special with players that a lot of other trainers don't do (besides maybe time in the cage and other baseball related activities). Brady is a spectacular athlete and a fitness freak. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean he's anything special as a trainer and there's definitely no evidence that he has somehow transformed a lot of ball players. Mancini was doing pretty darn well before he worked out with Brady. Wright was mediocre before and after he worked out with Brady. 

[Ohfan67]

p.s. I'm not trying to really dump on Brady or anyone else associated with managing the organization, but I think it's an excellent time to evaluate their performance. They have been given a lot of time and money and the results have not been great and that's magnified by the contracts given to Davis, Trumbo (supposedly a deal heavily involving Brady), a bunch of bad pitchers, etc. I just think it's fair to step back and take a hard look at what management has done. Unfortunately the Orioles convoluted power structure makes it very difficult to evaluate the performance of folks involved in the leadership. Brady was reportedly an important player with the Trumbo and O'Day contracts, but no one really knows who was in the driver's seat for the Orioles with those contracts, Davis, etc. 

[FlipTheBird]

30 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

That is definitely not data or "evidence". The workouts had no noticeable effect on the performance of Kim, Wright, Garcia, Berry, etc. There's no evidence that Brady does anything special with players that a lot of other trainers don't do (besides maybe time in the cage and other baseball related activities). Brady is a spectacular athlete and a fitness freak. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean he's anything special as a trainer and there's definitely no evidence that he has somehow transformed a lot of ball players. Mancini was doing pretty darn well before he worked out with Brady. Wright was mediocre before and after he worked out with Brady. 

 

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

p.s. I'm not trying to really dump on Brady or anyone else associated with managing the organization, but I think it's an excellent time to evaluate their performance. They have been given a lot of time and money and the results have not been great  and that's magnified by the contracts given to Davis, Trumbo (supposedly a deal heavily involving Brady), a bunch of bad pitchers, etc. I just think it's fair to step back and take a hard look at what management has done. Unfortunately the Orioles convoluted power structure makes it very difficult to evaluate the performance of folks involved in the leadership. Brady was reportedly an important player with the Trumbo and O'Day contracts, but no one really knows who was in the driver's seat for the Orioles with those contracts, Davis, etc. 

Perhaps the results have not been "great," but I still find it hard to complain about the last six years.    The real issue is whether they've positioned the team to be as good or better over the next six.     

[Ohfan67]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Perhaps the results have not been "great," but I still find it hard to complain about the last six years.    The real issue is whether they've positioned the team to be as good or better over the next six.     

Definitely fair. The offseason outlook would look pretty different if the Davis and Trumbo contracts were not on the books for next year. The minor league hitters, however, have definitely provided some hope that the near future may not be as bad as many fans assumed. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

[foxfield]

On 9/17/2017 at 10:34 AM, Ohfan67 said:

There's no evidence that Brady's conditioning routine is anything special. The local press has enjoyed writing about it but most of the players who worked out with him didn't show significant improvement in the following season. Overall I am very leery of Brady's influence in the organization. It reeks of the Angelos insiders of the past who undermined the decisions and authority of the people who should be responsible, who were "supposed to be" responsible. 

 

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Perhaps the results have not been "great," but I still find it hard to complain about the last six years.    The real issue is whether they've positioned the team to be as good or better over the next six.     

So here is my question.  I have also expressed doubt about the value that Brady brings and I admit, every time I read someone mention we should can DD and move on to Brady, I get a cold feeling.  And not to try and put Tony on the spot, but Tony has more than casually alluded to their still being a less than ideal line of command for the Orioles.  He went so far in one post as to say there are multiple GM's already.  What role does Brady have in that mess?

If Brady is not part of that in any way, then I continue to view him as one of my favorite O's of all time and hope he hangs around and continues to be a part of the program.  If he is a part of that in a way that has undermined existing leadership, then I will see him as the guy who struck out on October 6th, 2001 while I balled my eyes out in section 84 with my wife and 4 small kids awaiting one last at bat from Cal Ripken, Jr.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, foxfield said:

 

So here is my question.  I have also expressed doubt about the value that Brady brings and I admit, every time I read someone mention we should can DD and move on to Brady, I get a cold feeling.  And not to try and put Tony on the spot, but Tony has more than casually alluded to their still being a less than ideal line of command for the Orioles.  He went so far in one post as to say there are multiple GM's already.  What role does Brady have in that mess?

If Brady is not part of that in any way, then I continue to view him as one of my favorite O's of all time and hope he hangs around and continues to be a part of the program.  If he is a part of that in a way that has undermined existing leadership, then I will see him as the guy who struck out on October 6th, 2001 while I balled my eyes out in section 84 with my wife and 4 small kids awaiting one last at bat from Cal Ripken, Jr.

At the end of the day, Peter Angelos is responsible for the way the organization is run.     If the chain of command is blurry, that's the fault of the guy at the top.   I don't have a strong opinion about whether Brady's role is a help or a hindrance, but nothing said by Duquette or Showalter suggests he has infringed on their turf.

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

That is definitely not data or "evidence". The workouts had no noticeable effect on the performance of Kim, Wright, Garcia, Berry, etc. There's no evidence that Brady does anything special with players that a lot of other trainers don't do (besides maybe time in the cage and other baseball related activities). Brady is a spectacular athlete and a fitness freak. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean he's anything special as a trainer and there's definitely no evidence that he has somehow transformed a lot of ball players. Mancini was doing pretty darn well before he worked out with Brady. Wright was mediocre before and after he worked out with Brady. 

What I have heard Trey give Brady credit for is the advice and guidance he got from in in the spring of 2015 concern his hitting stance.  Brady go him to stand taller in the box and helped him with his swing.  I think Trey has also given credit to Kirby and Brady for helping him get use to fielding in the the outfield.   I can't remember hearing  Trey say much about Brady's off season workouts.  But that is we me.

[sportsfan8703]

This team showed what it could look like post ASB till about two weeks ago. Guys had actual approaches at the plate, we saw some bunts, moved runners a bit, now we're just playing for stars. 

Three straight years of HR's and strikeouts. We're a very boring team to watch. Our recipe to win games is to have a flawless bullpen that can pitch 4 IP, and hit 2-3 HR's. That's hard to do every night. 

People rat on the farm system, but it's the young guys that have the best approaches at the plate. Mancini, Hays, and Sisco. 

Where would we be without the Tim Beckham month of August?  90 losses?

[eddie83]

39 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

This team showed what it could look like post ASB till about two weeks ago. Guys had actual approaches at the plate, we saw some bunts, moved runners a bit, now we're just playing for stars. 

Three straight years of HR's and strikeouts. We're a very boring team to watch. Our recipe to win games is to have a flawless bullpen that can pitch 4 IP, and hit 2-3 HR's. That's hard to do every night. 

People rat on the farm system, but it's the young guys that have the best approaches at the plate. Mancini, Hays, and Sisco. 

Where would we be without the Tim Beckham month of August?  90 losses?

Beckham was important but Manny was the player of the month in August. Many guys hit  

I like what I have seen in Hays so far. His plate discipline will be something to watch. Sisco looks patient. 

In general as far as the offense goes no question it is flawed but at the end of the day Davis and Trumbo have killed us. Hard to play with 7. Organization should be willing to eat some of Trumbo's deal and move him.  Stuck with Davis for now.

Bundy was bad 2 nights ago but the second half of season and overall we have seen his talent. Gausman needs to be better in big spots, that said a very good second half turnaround. Things are just going bad right now,  it happens. I remember sweeping Arizona last September and thinking they have some talent and could bounce back. They did and then some this year. 

It is nice seeing better athleticism on the field. Sisco looks athletic and Hays certainly is. 

[allquixotic]

The mask is off. We stopped masquerading as a mediocre team and decided to explicitly appear as a bad team, while also in fact being a bad team. So there is no longer any discrepancy between the reality and the appearance.

?